Spit16 Fly by Wire

[Gixer]

Yeah I know been talked to death before, but...

Is this really even close to how a Spit16 would of actually felt in flight or be able to fly? To me it seems like a fly by wire F16 the way it can be thrown about the sky, not too far from the old Falcon 4.0 model in feel except you are doing 280mph instead of 600mph. And against it in a high eny ride it never ceases to amaze me, most aircraft after merge you expect to be somewhere near point B but the Spit16 is often already well past any expected point B and possibly even in position for a shot.

Actually flying it, 1v1 against anything other than perk rides feels like cheating. I actually prefer it over the Temp. To me it feels not that far from being a 2 cannon temp but with better E retention and maneuverability at certain speeds.

Anyway, just my mumblings after a few hours trying it out and vs ever present horde that fly em on a regular basis. I believe it's not what you fly but how you fly it, but you could fly it drunk left handed and still hold one hell of an advantage over most other rides.


<S>...-Gixer

[Karnak]

What numbers does it miss?

Roll rate?  That seems to match the NACA chart for a clipped Spitfire.  There are better rolling fighters in the game, though not many I'll grant you.

Speeds?  It matches the speed charts for a Merlin 66 powered Spitfire LF.Mk IX on 100 octane fuel.  There are many faster fighters.  I've never been run down suspiciously by a Spitfire Mk XVI.

Acceleration?  Matches the climb rate of the Spitfire LF.Mk IX, and that is a proxy for acceleration.  Despite claims of it doing a hard 180 degree turn and then accelerating and catching another fighter that has over 400mph on the clock no film of such has ever been produced.  There are a couple better climbing fighters in the game, but given that is one of the Spitfire's fortes it isn't surprising that a 1944 version will climb exceptionally well.

Turn rate or radius?  Again, nothing out of line.  There are much better turning aircraft in the game, including several other Spitfires.


What makes it unbelievable to you?

[Karnak]

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[Karnak]

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[Karnak]

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[Karnak]

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[FLS]

The Spit 16 in Aces High requires a computer to fly like it does.   

[Franz Von Werra]

Uh, because even Churchil admitted after the war that "germany will be painted as the badguys"...
And as much as he, and stalin, were begging USA to help help, after the war the lies about "didn't need USA"

The spit16 'recorded attributes' are part of the lies!
Especially Eric Brown <--- very nationalistic patriotic, and controversy says he LIES!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Brown_(pilot)
Even USA engineers said he was full of it when he was talking about the P-47 etc.

[Karnak]

Sorry Barbi, but the NACA roll rate the Spitfire Mk XVI uses in AH are American tests.  I know you hate the Brits and everything about them, but suck it up cupcake.

[SmokinLoon]

The Spit16 is THEE crutch plane of AH.  There is nothing it cant do and do very well, save for maybe a 500 TAS dive.

My issue with the 16 is the lack of perk cost.  For everything it does better and only the 1 thing it does worse than the Spit 14, I'm still perplexed that it doesn't have a small perk cost (2-4?)

People will mention that "there are planes that are faster, roll better, turn better, climb better, etc", but the thing most forget about that even though the P51 is faster all the 16 has to do is match speeds with the P51 (say 300 TAS) in any maneuver and it is over for the P51.  All the Spit 16 has to do vs a Hurricane or zeke is not get in to a tight 130 TAS turn, and if it does simply be climbing and it will leave the others behind.  Or, if and when they catch up in that tight turn all the 16 has to do is roll °180 and out roll, accelerate, and climb away. Easy peasy.  If the 16 gets in to a scissors vs its only equal in the roll (the Fw190), it has the luxury of being more forgiving, better handling at slower speeds, turning, acceleration, etc, so it can rely on far more things than just the roll rate.  Point being is that if and when the Spit 16 goes up against a plane that can do something "better" than it, it is hardly worth mentioning because it is not eclipsed by much and all of the other superb attributes make up for any deficiency or "disadvantage" it may have vs a particular plane.  It truly is the best dog fighter in AH.  

Oh, and the 16's ability to carry 1000 lbs of ord (1186 lbs dmg) is often over looked.  It was after all meant to be used as a ground attack plane.  Instead, AH has it as its best fighter.    

[Karnak]

SmokinLoon, I think that comes down to usage.  When the P-51D sees twice the usage of the Spitfire Mk XVI and carries a better K/D ratio with it, it would be hard to justify perking the Spitfire Mk XVI.  The fact that the Spitfire Mk XIV is perked isn't a good reference because as Lusche has shown repeatedly, it is by far the worst perk plane and the only perk plane that is always beaten in K/D by some non-perked planes.

Oh, and the 16's ability to carry 1000 lbs of ord (1186 lbs dmg) is often over looked.  It was after all meant to be used as a ground attack plane.  Instead, AH has it as its best fighter.    

You have that backwards.  It was meant to be an interceptor that ended up being pressed into service as an attack plane.  Nothing significant was changed that would impede its use as an interceptor.


For all the years of complaints about it nobody has every showed how it is modeled incorrectly.  All that is ever thrown at it are vague insinuations about being overmodeled.

[jeffdn]

For all the years of complaints about it nobody has every showed how it is modeled incorrectly.  All that is ever thrown at it are vague insinuations about being overmodeled.

It was a fantastic plane, as was the Spitfire series as a whole. It had many strong attributes, chiefly being easy to fly and control. When you are defending your country with barely-trained pilots, that would be a most favorable attribute.

I think they are just jealous!

[danny76]

Uh, because even Churchil admitted after the war that "germany will be painted as the badguys"...
And as much as he, and stalin, were begging USA to help help, after the war the lies about "didn't need USA"

The spit16 'recorded attributes' are part of the lies!
Especially Eric Brown <--- very nationalistic patriotic, and controversy says he LIES!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Brown_(pilot)
Even USA engineers said he was full of it when he was talking about the P-47 etc.

Errrm... what are you gibbering about? No one needs reminding of the myriad reasons Germany was "painted" as the bad guys, their actions pretty much assured they were considered just that. Of course you being a more skilled test pilot than Eric Brown with real world experience in Spits and 47's you should feel free to give your opinion

[save]

190a-series  can easy get rid of pesky spits16 by diving away, and do fancy stuff when the spit compress, Spit16 can NOT roll with 190-a series.

Spit16 is a good plane, though easy overshadowed by the LA-7, that has everything going for it, against faster planes.

Perking the 3-gun model of the LA-7 hopefully would make it a little bit more unusual. in Loose-Deuce we call them LA-infestivals, due to their multiplying rate closer to their own airfield.

The Spit16 is THEE crutch plane of AH.  There is nothing it cant do and do very well, save for maybe a 500 TAS dive.

My issue with the 16 is the lack of perk cost.  For everything it does better and only the 1 thing it does worse than the Spit 14, I'm still perplexed that it doesn't have a small perk cost (2-4?)

People will mention that "there are planes that are faster, roll better, turn better, climb better, etc", but the thing most forget about that even though the P51 is faster all the 16 has to do is match speeds with the P51 (say 300 TAS) in any maneuver and it is over for the P51.  All the Spit 16 has to do vs a Hurricane or zeke is not get in to a tight 130 TAS turn, and if it does simply be climbing and it will leave the others behind.  Or, if and when they catch up in that tight turn all the 16 has to do is roll °180 and out roll, accelerate, and climb away. Easy peasy.  If the 16 gets in to a scissors vs its only equal in the roll (the Fw190), it has the luxury of being more forgiving, better handling at slower speeds, turning, acceleration, etc, so it can rely on far more things than just the roll rate.  Point being is that if and when the Spit 16 goes up against a plane that can do something "better" than it, it is hardly worth mentioning because it is not eclipsed by much and all of the other superb attributes make up for any deficiency or "disadvantage" it may have vs a particular plane.  It truly is the best dog fighter in AH.  

Oh, and the 16's ability to carry 1000 lbs of ord (1186 lbs dmg) is often over looked.  It was after all meant to be used as a ground attack plane.  Instead, AH has it as its best fighter.    

[LilMak]

Meh...Spitfires were legendary for the very attributes that make them the plane they are in game. I don't see a need to perk them. They still surprise me now and then but they were truly great dog fighters and likely the best of the war. The only fighter that really makes me scratch my head anymore is the Brew.