Author Topic: Kill/Assist System  (Read 771 times)

Offline Tinkles

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Kill/Assist System
« on: March 10, 2013, 07:14:36 PM »
There are 3 wishes in this.

Wishlist
#1  When you get killed you see who killed you AND who got the assist (if one was awarded). Ex. Tom shot you down and Bob assisted. (or something to that effect)
#2  When you get an assist, it lists who got the kill. You got an assist. Tom got the kill.
#3  When the enemy bails or ditches while their plane is on the ground, the player still gets the kill.
#4  When you critical damage to an enemy and a friendly does as well, to the point where they are within a certain % of each other. Both get awarded a "co-op assist". Where both split the "perk reward" which each other. Examples below.


Quite a few times this topic has found it's way to the boards from one person or another. Today I bring it back with hopes that it can fix the current dilemmas we are facing when it comes to kills and assists.  Namely : http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,346303.0.html

An example from me would be today. Dived on a set of lancs that weren't smoking, leaking or "a ball of flame", took his wing off in 1 pass. He dies, I get an assist.

I think that there needs to be a change with the "kill/assist system". 


Scenario #1

Example: Tom and Bob are going after a Lancaster. Tom takes the wing but Bob gets the pilot. Who gets the kill?

This is how I would do it.
        Both get an assist. Since both took out a key element that is necessary for flight. Planes can't fly without a pilot, and pilots can't fly without a plane. This would mean that assists would have to be bumped up to "worthful" rather than giving the player a golden sticker saying *you did a good job, try better next time*.  Assists would be 1/2 total kill. To keep it simple, if the lanc was worth 1 point, Tom and Bob would get .50/.50 so assists count for something and both get credit for the kill.  To the enemy lanc it would say "Tom and Bob shot you down".

Now, if Tom shot the wing off the lanc, and bob dove on the lanc to "try and steal the kill or get an assist" it wouldn't count. Because Bob didn't do any significant damage before the wing was destroyed, wouldn't get the kill or assist.  However, if Tom hit the pilot, and wounded the enemy pilot, then bob dives in on the lanc and takes a wing, then they would get 50/50. Because the pilot wasn't dead and the pilot was still "able to fly the plane".

  Scenario #2
     Just like now when you have 5 players on one enemy con. Only two can get "credit" for the kill. However, one gets the perks and the other doesn't (hence the golden sticker reference from before).  This would still be in effect, meaning that still only two people get credit for the kill. So if Tom takes an aileron, Bob gets the pilot and Jerry just shoots randomly not don't any significant damage. Then Bob would get the "kill" and Tom would get the assist (now worth points).  In this case since Tom didn't do enough damage to disable the plane (wing, pilot, fuel etc) then he gets a 1/3 assist.  So Bob since he gets credit for the kill gets 2/3s perks for the kill and Tom gets 1/3rd.

So damage would still be scaled like it is now. So you can't go around and randomly hit planes and hope to get assists for perks. If you pay attention when you see more than one fighter on a plane now anyways, they are mainly spraying at the target. Because if they were aiming and knew how to hit the target, the target would've been dead already.

Also, to make sure that you can't randomly shoot at planes and hope to get assists. If you just hit the wings, but don't take an aileron (or wing) off, then it wouldn't count as an assist: unless that wing was sheered off by a friendly whom "got the kill" then it counts as an assist. 


I do understand that the damage system is very complex and HTC has put a lot of time into creating it.  :salute 

These are my opinions of how it "should" be improved.

Respectively,

Tinkles  :salute
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 07:39:30 PM »
+1 with exception to #3, which I think should be changed to "You forced ***** to bail" or "....to ditch"
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline LTCClark

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 07:51:49 PM »
+1 for all except for the bail - ditch part

we pilots try extensively to bail and ditch to avoid getting a death

deaths bring down your score extensively and that sucks to know that you have died

assist question - the biggest thing with assists is that you dont get perkies.
i agree that it would be beneficial for perks to be split
but the current system of who gotnthenkill is totally acceptable
it keeps us talking to each other
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 08:16:48 PM »
I have some wishes that would help, and make it much easier on HTC.

Stop flying in hordes!
Stop being the fifth guy in on a target.
Learn to shoot better.
Fly other planes than the Spit16, Pony, or any other higher tier plane.
Learn to fly better.


Practice and improve on each of these items and the kill count will go up and the assist count will go down, and the perk bank will grow. 

Offline Tinkles

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 09:33:44 PM »
I have some wishes that would help, and make it much easier on HTC.

Stop flying in hordes!       
Stop being the fifth guy in on a target.
Learn to shoot better.
Fly other planes than the Spit16, Pony, or any other higher tier plane.
Learn to fly better.


Practice and improve on each of these items and the kill count will go up and the assist count will go down, and the perk bank will grow. 

I don't fly in hordes, I tend to fly by myself or with a small group.
I don't go for planes that have more than 2 guys on them (unless it's bombers near a base ready to bomb)
I aim just fine
I fly the F4U-1, P38 and Wirble most of the time
I practice in the DA at least 1 hour a day (when I can) and visit the TA when I can.


Just because you think you have the answer doesn't mean you do. This is mainly to help others from getting the feeling of being "robbed". Even though it technically is still an assist, it would reward the player with some perks.  Better than the current worthless assist that is more akin to a slap in the face than a "job well done".

Be nice Fugitive, not everyone is perfect like you.   :salute

Tinkles
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Offline icepac

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 10:38:53 PM »
If aces high pilots spent as much time learning how to fly and fight as they do gaming the game for the express purpose of denying a kill, they wouldn't have to cross the line into dweebery.

They aren't worried about "dying".

They just don't want anyone to gain from it.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 06:53:32 AM »
I don't fly in hordes, I tend to fly by myself or with a small group.
I don't go for planes that have more than 2 guys on them (unless it's bombers near a base ready to bomb)
I aim just fine
I fly the F4U-1, P38 and Wirble most of the time
I practice in the DA at least 1 hour a day (when I can) and visit the TA when I can.


Just because you think you have the answer doesn't mean you do. This is mainly to help others from getting the feeling of being "robbed". Even though it technically is still an assist, it would reward the player with some perks.  Better than the current worthless assist that is more akin to a slap in the face than a "job well done".

Be nice Fugitive, not everyone is perfect like you.   :salute

Tinkles

The whole point of your post is "to help others from getting the feeling of being "robbed"." So if you work toward killing your opponent quickly and cleanly you will never feel like you have been robbed. You propose to "dumb down" the game instead of insisting people get better at the game. How is that good? Just so their feelings don't get hurt isn't going to improve game play.

If you want perks, earn them by getting the kill, NOT by changing the rules to make it easier to get them.

As for being "perfect" LOL!!!! In the 11 years I have been playing this game I still learn stuff almost every time I fly. It has taken me 6 months of hard work to learn to keep my hit % in the "5" range. Check my score a few months back and you will find some months were my assists and kills in a fighter almost match!

If you consider an assist a "slap in the face", TRY HARDER next time.

Offline Delirium

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 10:54:58 AM »
Not sure I like this idea, but I can see it now...

"You have been killed by Player1"
"Player 2 got the assist on you."
"Player 3 got the assist on you."
"Player 4 got the assist on you."
"Player 5 got the assist on you."
"Player 6 got the assist on you."
"Player 7 got the assist on you."
"Player 8 got the assist on you."

and lastly;

Player 6 <Salute> Delirium
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Offline caldera

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 11:03:11 AM »
These two parts are fine:

#1  When you get killed you see who killed you AND who got the assist (if one was awarded). Ex. Tom shot you down and Bob assisted. (or something to that effect)
#2  When you get an assist, it lists who got the kill. You got an assist. Tom got the kill.


The rest is just giving credit for not getting a kill.  Ditching while 6 planes are tag-teaming you is AH nirvana.  :banana:

Not sure I like this idea, but I can see it now...

"You have been killed by Player1"
"Player 2 got the assist on you."
"Player 3 got the assist on you."
"Player 4 got the assist on you."
"Player 5 got the assist on you."
"Player 6 got the assist on you."
"Player 7 got the assist on you."
"Player 8 got the assist on you."

and lastly;

Player 6 <Salute> Delirium


Ain't that the truth?  :lol
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 11:10:32 AM »
The LW arena average is one assist for every three kills. Yes, that includes all the 2 weekers.

So if your problem is that you get more assists than kills on a regular base, I'd suggest to work on your skills (hook up with a trainer) instead of changing the rules.  :old:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 11:16:46 AM by Lusche »
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 11:28:46 AM »
The LW arena average is one assist for every three kills. Yes, that includes all the 2 weekers.

So if your problem is that you get more assists than kills on a regular base, I'd suggest to work on your skills (hook up with a trainer) instead of changing the rules.  :old:

Another interesting point You make Lusche.   Kills vs assist is a telling number to me.  I see assist vs kills go up when I extended the convergence out too far on wing mounted guns.  I see an increase in assist vs kills when I start shooting too soon.   I saw my assist go down when I got a better joystick.  I still suck when shooting but I am getting better.

Offline Sunka

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 02:35:11 PM »
The LW arena average is one assist for every three kills. Yes, that includes all the 2 weekers.

So if your problem is that you get more assists than kills on a regular base, I'd suggest to work on your skills (hook up with a trainer) instead of changing the rules.  :old:
I'll add ...one word ,convergence
 Watching videos when you shoot down the opponent see where you (get) most kills not (try to get) kills.
I used to get many Assist flying the b 51 with 4, 50's until i brought my convergence in to 200 off,then planes started to explode a lot more.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 04:16:02 PM »
The LW arena average is one assist for every three kills. Yes, that includes all the 2 weekers.

So if your problem is that you get more assists than kills on a regular base, I'd suggest to work on your skills (hook up with a trainer) instead of changing the rules.  :old:

  I'm not sure just any trainer would be of help,I have twice as many assists as I do kills in FSO....... :o     Maybe my skills are lacking... :furious       Shooting has to be the 1 skill thats difficult to teach,sure you can suggest convergence ranges and tell the player to aim where they're going and not at them but I personally think it's a skill you must develope on your own.

  I've never been a good shot in this game,of course it might help if I could see abit better but I cant blame it all on eyesight! Timming and reflexes also come into play and then there's the X factor,thats the simple fact some guys seem to be able to hit any plane they aim at.



    :salute

Offline Randy1

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 04:23:24 PM »
 
  I've never been a good shot in this game,of course it might help if I could see abit better . . .
 :salute

Bigger monitor/tv helps.  I find I have to zoom more too.

Offline Wiley

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Re: Kill/Assist System
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2013, 05:03:50 PM »
The LW arena average is one assist for every three kills. Yes, that includes all the 2 weekers.

So if your problem is that you get more assists than kills on a regular base, I'd suggest to work on your skills (hook up with a trainer) instead of changing the rules.  :old:

LOL!  My bias made me think, 'Aha!  Just as I expected, 3 assists to 1 kill.' until I re-read it.  That's a surprising statistic, especially with all the gangbanging that goes on.  I wonder if the system records them if you're shot down before you get your assist?  I wonder if that's a significant difference if it doesn't?

Wiley.
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