Spit XIV Question

[Babalonian]

Bab I've been doing Spit history for 30 plus years, long before computer flight sims.  The 4 cannon Spits just didn't happen beyond the same minimal use we talk about every year in AH as folks search high and low for a reason to add 4 cannons in game to the Spit.

It wasn't in the ETO with the XIV that had Universal wings and the XIV that got to the PTO at the very end were E Wing.  One of the issues with the 4 cannon set up was gun bay heating.  The only place the 4 cannon birds saw there very limited action was in ground attack in the MTO and with one modified Spit VIII with the Aussies in the PTO that was apparently used to go after high alt Dinah recce birds.

Ah, thank you Guppy!  So then it did see some very limited use in WWII combat operations then... interesting.

Then it could be safe assuming it's a situation similar to the Chog in AH.  It would need to be perked for use in AH as it saw very limited and situational use....  but, unlike the Chog, didn't the british 4x20mms instalation in the universal winged spits have their ice-protective shrouds installed?... 



OK, staying/back on topic, specificly 4x20mm Spit XIVs with the Universal wing, circa WWII (and with consideration to it already being a perked ride in AH), was it never used in favor of the 2x50 + 2x20 combo that had adequate gun bay heating?  Would it's addition (as a gun package option, and maybe some other gun package options) to the already perked Spit XIV be completely out of line for AH (the same sim featuring a perked F4U-1C with 4x20mms and no gun heating issues modeled)?  I think it could really make the Spit XIV an aircraft to be perked at a worthy cost.

[Jabberwock]

Given that it was never used operationally - as far as we can know - I'd say that the 4 x 20 mm option should be beyond the reasonable bounds of consideration.

Doesn't having 4 x 20 mm on the Typhoon and Tempest provide fair enough coverage?

[Guppy35]

Bab, it was never used on the XIV.  Very few XIV had Universal wings.  The majority had the redesigned E wing.  It was not the same as the Universal and not set up for 4 20mm.

There is no reason to suggest a 4 cannon Spit and that is being said as a Spit fan.

[Babalonian]

Bab, it was never used on the XIV.  Very few XIV had Universal wings.  The majority had the redesigned E wing.  It was not the same as the Universal and not set up for 4 20mm.

There is no reason to suggest a 4 cannon Spit and that is being said as a Spit fan.

You'll have to forgive my misunderstanding then.  The AH SpitXIV looks visualy to be modeled with the Universal wing though on a high-back fuselage, correct?  And that is what I've been running with, the assumption that HTC chose that specific design as the one to model.  Is its performance and armament in AH consistent with that of an updated E wing or a low-back?

Maybe my wish is reaching too far, but then I have to wonder, isn't then the SpitXIV in AH some Frankenstein or fictional aircraft?

[Karnak]

You'll have to forgive my misunderstanding then.  The AH SpitXIV looks visualy to be modeled with the Universal wing though on a high-back fuselage, correct?

The Spitfire Mk XIV in AH is modeled with an "e" wing, not a Universal wing.

And that is what I've been running with, the assumption that HTC chose that specific design as the one to model.  Is its performance and armament in AH consistent with that of an updated E wing or a low-back?

Maybe my wish is reaching too far, but then I have to wonder, isn't then the SpitXIV in AH some Frankenstein or fictional aircraft?

The low back and "e" wing are entirely separate things.  The majority of Spitfire Mk XIVs were, as ours is in AH, high back, unclipped examples with "e" wings.

[save]

I wonder why spit21 would not fit in in AH , when apparently P47M do ?

Both saw very limited combat and where deployed in one squadron during the war.

[Guppy35]

I wonder why spit21 would not fit in in AH , when apparently P47M do ?

Both saw very limited combat and where deployed in one squadron during the war.

47m was in group strength and for a longer time seeing actual combat.  The 21 was the single squadron and outside of a few patrols flown from England it never did much of anything.  The 21 would require the modeling of essentially a different aircraft with the new wing design too.

[Karnak]

Yup, 3D shapewise the P-47M was a freebie as it has the exact same 3D model as the P-47D-40.  That was, as I recall, a significant factor in HTC's decision to add it.

[save]

With that in mind, FW-190 A9, maybe even a Dora-13  should soon show up in an late arena close to you, sharing same 3d-model as their ancestors.
13-Dora is a bit of a stretch, but they where in service.

[Krusty]

There were a large number of smaller variants with the 190D that had increased firepower, as well as Ta152 variants. I wouldn't mind one small version (i.e. D-12, D-13, something) to represent the mix-matched assortment of up-gunned 190Ds available.

They were, after all, going to be using the Doras as jabo and heavy fighters once the Ta152s took over the primary role as "fighter" -- though the war ended before this really could take place.

As for the Spit XIV - Babs you don't need to grasp at straws to justify a perk price for this plane. It earns its perk. So do some currently unperked planes. While I don't fully agree with the way it's modeled right now (too squirrelly, doesn't seem to correspond to pilots that flew and tested it), it is quite lethal. Even the unperked spits are worthy of small perks in some cases. The unperked XVI can already chase down most planes in the game and kill them. No reason to unperk the XIV "just because."

[Zacherof]

Has anyone ever been chased by a spit 14 at alt? Thing will run you down unless your in a certain plane. (+1 for more 190')

[bustr]

I wish HiTech would indicate if perking is based on what the advantages of the ride in question "possibly" can do to improve the capabilities and outcomes for the average player. Or the few accomplished advanced players who make most rides act like perk rides as the hallmark of their abilities?

In the time I've been playing this game, the spit14 is the perfect ride to reveal just how average the average player is at flying demanding higher performance rides. As for accomplished veteran players in them. I and most of POTW have yet to run across one. When we run across spit14, usually we destroy them or they run away while we are in unperked rides. Waystin and I stopped flying them in favor of the spit8 for the increased fuel, similarity of performance in climb at MA alts, and superior maneuverability to the spit14.

The only real benefit to the spit14 is if we know we are hunting P51D and P47M above 20k. Otherwise to 22k the spit8 performs the same job with more fuel to waste if the pony or MJug wants to run for awhile. Waystin and I have repeatedly over the years held off packs of ponies above 20k in spit8 while trimming their herd. The spit8 is an easy mode alt fighter. You just have to know not to fly it like a spit9 above 18k or you will hand yourself to a pony who knows how to use a notch of flaps.

Biggest learning problem with the spit14 is it's not a spitfire in our collective image of how a spitfire is flown in the MA. And that's why the majority of average players throw away their perk. Either by landing no kills or getting killed flying it like a spit16.

You can religiously vote to veto unperking it due to it's potential which has never manifested itself like the 262 or Tempest. Or for that very potential unperking it to eventually challenge the prevailing P51D lemming herd dominance with a purpose designed tool for exactly that. A short range interceptor that can get to alt quickly with a gun package that has a higher probability of impacting the enemy than the K4's. Afterall this is not a WW2 historical reenactment game. It's an air combat simulator using WW2 tools which currently has an imbalance visa one. Courtesy Lusche's excellent charts.   

[Karnak]

Krusty is just obsessive on certain things and he doesn't acknowledge anybody else's thoughts, knowledge or opinions as valid.  In the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV he is certain it is perk worthy despite all evidence being to the contrary and he has consistently maintained that position through the years.  No matter that the Spitfire Mk XIV never makes the leap to superfighter than he claims it is he never waivers in his conviction.

[Krusty]

That's an outright lie, Karnak, and you know it. I've even defended YOUR ideas before, and you know that too.

Next time don't resort to slander when you disagree with somebody. Too much of that on this forum as it is.

[hellwolf]

Spit14 is just awesome, you just got to know how to fly it!  It is not a spit,5,8 or 16 so if you try and turn fight in it you will die in it.  I see many say its useless under 12k, but once again you just have to know its capabilities. I love a fast 51 or tempest or la7 trying to jump me when down low, Their kill a perk ride light goes on and think a 14 down low = easy meat, but a break turn or 2 to equalize e then hit auto climb and go for a smoke, they aint going to catch you in the climb. Leads to more ropes than any other ride Ive tried.  For less than 10 perks its a bargain compared to a temp or a 262 or a chog (eats chogs for brekky). So if anything, its perks should go up.
This plane suits my style, since arthritis prevents too much stick movement I have to bnz mostly, and the 14 is perfect for this role.
As said in the above posts, you virtually never see a 14, another advantage, since most don't know its strengths they try and fight it like other spits, and that lack of knowledge will get you killed, or at the very least will let me escape with kills under my belt.  They are also great bomber interceptors since you can get to 20k in just a few minutes without burning a huge amount of fuel.