Hear the enemy turret tuning

[RngFndr]

AFAIK, the Ferdinand (Porsche Tiger) had the Diesel/Electric drive, like a Locomotive..
The Henchel Tiger, used a Hydramatic transmission and steering gear, including pivot steer..

I always assumed that the Tiger used a Hydraulic Motor for Turret Traverse, but I thought
it was powered by an electric pump.. Engine driven pump only??? That is new info to me..

Need confirmation on that.. If true, that could change gameplay..

[Chalenge]

My point in saying you should research this comes from the way HTC has decided to portray tanks altogether. If you find one example that will certainly pork "berm camping," then you will find other examples that will not. So, unless HTC decides to model all tanks realistically as their individual systems were originally, then the tanks should probably remain just as they are. The idea being that every tank is just like the others for each operator.

Now, in detail, the Tiger II I know has a hydraulic turret that is powered from the engine. Turret speed is then tied directly to engine RPM. At high RPM the turret will rotate 360 degrees in ten seconds. At idle it takes a lot longer.

This same system is in place on the one vehicle you do not want to see operate at high RPM, the Wirbelwind.

So, be careful what you wish for.

[phatzo]

So, be careful what you wish for.

If that's how it was so be it, imagine the effects of inertia on a tiger II turret doing a full 360* rotation in 10 seconds.

[Chalenge]

You are ignoring the fact that this wish is unprecedented. None of the aircraft in this game have their specific systems  portrayed to the level of detail you wish in tanks. It would redefine AH from a survey simulation to a study simulation, and the majority of noobs would be lost on day one.  That, and you are ignoring the fact that HTC decided to move away from modeling tanks with details such as drivers positions, and operator controlled throttle levels, brakes, and gear shifts.

I would love it if the aircraft had more detail, myself. Especially, I would love to see the landing gear times adjusted to real world times. I've been wishing for it for some time with no result.

This wish is going no where.

[Mano]

You make some good points Chalenge. I definitely opened a can of worms.  

btw......great job defending that v base with the Tiger 2 the other night.
When you pivoted the front armor towards me.....all I could do was say Oh shhhhhh(word deleted), no way
I'm gonna back out in time <BOOM>  LOL I had at least 5 hits to your flank, but I was too far away for
my HVAP to be effective.

 

[Chalenge]

Thank you. I saw where the shot was coming from immediately, but seeing through those trees was impossible. That's when I moved out past them and got you. I was reluctant to do it because I had already called out "anchor," and I knew there was an M3 on the way. He didn't make it obviously.

[bj229r]

HTC has always implemented 'realism' on a case by case basis. Years ago, I could  dive through a vulchfest at a friendly base at 400, flare out, and belly in, getting a safe landing. GV's used to show an icon to enemy planes at 6k....now it's 3k. Tanks used to be able to fire from inside buildings.....IL2's used to have F3 view (which, of COURSE,  no one used) wirby turret was greatly slowed v down....puffy ack now targets buffs over fighters. Though the original post was about turret NOISE, making the turret spin slower with the engine off is not a pie-in-the-sky thing

[Chalenge]

You miss the whole point bj. . . 

Which system are you going to implement when it comes to turrets? The T34 system? The Tiger II? How about the M4? . . .because no matter which system you use a mud driver is going to come along and say "well that's not how it worked on the tank I drive" and then you're right back where you started.

[TDeacon]

You will first need to demonstrate that WWII tanks typically located each other by sound, as if they were submarines.  The historical reality that I recall (in 40-plus years of reading military history) is that WWII tanks couldn't hear much because their engines were usually on.  Turning the engine off in a tactical environment was apparently not considered to be a good idea.  The fact that we can do this in the game may add gameplay interest, but it doesn't seem to be very realistic.  In turn, the latter point mitigates against HTC adding more detail in this area. 

MH

[bj229r]

You miss the whole point bj. . . 

Which system are you going to implement when it comes to turrets? The T34 system? The Tiger II? How about the M4? . . .because no matter which system you use a mud driver is going to come along and say "well that's not how it worked on the tank I drive" and then you're right back where you started.

Aucontraire, my sitting-on-the-concrete-at-a-Vbase-in-a-Tiger2-friend.....all tanks have unique characteristics...gunsight... .speed....ability to pivot....the action of the turret with engine off would be unique to the tank, like those items. (having said that, I'd be highly surprised if HT went and did it)

[phatzo]

You are ignoring the fact that this wish is unprecedented.
This wish is going no where.

I didn't wish for anything, the OP made me think about what makes noise when a turret turns. I concluded that it would be an hydraulic pump, driven by the tanks engine in a lot of cases. I don't expect it to be implemented because it would drastically change the GV game that everyone is used to.

[CptA]

I spent 22 of my 31 years of U.S. Army service as a Tank Crewman and Officer. I have operated everything from an M-47 to an M1IP and I can tell you that if you are more than about 10 yards away from the tank when it rotates it's turret, there is nothing to hear. A well maintained turret drive produces a low purr or rumble that is hardly audible...there are no loud squeels or clanks unless something is seriously broken.

The loadest noise produced in the turret is the sound of the electrically driven hydralic pump motor cycling on and off periodically to replenish the pressure in the recuperator of the elevation mechanism. This noise only lasts a few seconds every couple of minutes depending upon how much the gun is being elevated or depressed. Again, you would have to be right next to the tank to hear it.

Since WW2 the U.S. and most of the rest of the world have been using electically driven hydraulic turret motors to move the turrets on their tanks. However, placing highly pressurized and flamable hydraulic fluid inside the turret is not a good idea. A study of the casualties produced during the tank battles of the Arab-Israeli wars has shown that burns caused by ruptured hydraulic systems caused most of the tank casualties on both sides.

This is why armored crewman in the western armies now wear nomex coveralls as their outer uniform, and also the reason that the U.S. Army chose a completely electrical (non-hydraulic) turret drive system for the M1 tank.

Here is a link to the Technical Manual for the turret drive system for the M3 Grant tank of WW2. I think it is probably fairly typical of the tanks of that era. The diagram on page 4, and the description of it's operation on page 5 do a good job of explaining how the system and it's manual backup works.

http://www.easy39th.com/files/TM_9-1750H_Hydraulic_Traversing_Mechanism_(Logansport)_for_Medium_Tank_M3_and_Modif ications_1943.pdf

CptA
Steel on Target!

[Chalenge]

Aucontraire, my sitting-on-the-concrete-at-a-Vbase-in-a-Tiger2-friend.....all tanks have unique characteristics...gunsight... .speed....ability to pivot....the action of the turret with engine off would be unique to the tank, like those items. (having said that, I'd be highly surprised if HT went and did it)

Thank you for completely (and ignorantly) agreeing with me.

[Mano]

Thank you CptA. Not the response I wanted to hear.  
But I know you are right.

The tanks in AH are modeled to the best realism possible within their sim engine parameters.
I really enjoy the GV fights and rarely up a plane. When tankers work together it really enhances the
Experience.


 

[Wmaker]

Now, in detail, the Tiger II I know has a hydraulic turret that is powered from the engine. Turret speed is then tied directly to engine RPM. At high RPM the turret will rotate 360 degrees in ten seconds. At idle it takes a lot longer.

This same system is in place on the one vehicle you do not want to see operate at high RPM, the Wirbelwind.

So, be careful what you wish for.

Actually no, not in the serial production Wirbelwind.

Hydraulically operated turret was tested in the prototype but the production vehicles didn't have it.

Source: Nuts & Bolts Vol 13


AH used to have turret traverse rate that represented what could be achieved by the prototype. It was changed to what could be achieved with the hand-crank traversing mechanisim of the production vehicle and as such is currently more accurate representation of the operational vehicle.