No Icons for enemy

[jimson]

but if you insist on trying to make player play your game, remember one thing, people vote with their presence in this game and there's a reason why the ava only has a few members at a time while the ma has several hundred.

You mean all we have to do is turn icons on to MA standards and the AvA will be full day after day and night after night?

Golly gee wilikers!! why have we never thought of that or tried it?

[whiteman]

exactly, has nothing to do with limited play set that the majority seem not to like.

[guncrasher]

You mean all we have to do is turn icons on to MA standards and the AvA will be full day after day and night after night?

Golly gee wilikers!! why have we never thought of that or tried it?

ok there's 2 reasons.  icons and you know the other.


semp

[seano]

ava is dead on arrival because the planes are usually sucky. give us  no icons in a main arena please. you guys tried arena capping for a year before getting rid of it! if all the good playrs play in the no icon arena, the sheep will follow.

[Nr_RaVeN]

ava is dead on arrival because the planes are usually sucky. give us  no icons in a main arena please. you guys tried arena capping for a year before getting rid of it! if all the good playrs play in the no icon arena, the sheep will follow.

Anything other than late war bird is a sucky plane in your opinion right? 

[MK-84]

more realistic would be the icon getting smaller as the enemy gets closer, to the point of a tiny dot above plane once within say 400 yards, text disappearing.....

I understand how Icons from far away replicate the vision of the eye, but once its close the huge Icon goes far beyond real vision, and makes it basically imposable to lose vis on the con.

 icon normal as it is now at distance, as the con gets closer have it get smaller.... at 800 the text disappears....at 400 it becomes a small red dot.
this would be perfect IMO

I really like that concept

[mechanic]

I suggested ink's idea a few years ago in the wishlist. I got told to just turn icons off when they get close manualy. I would still love this idea to be tried out.

[guncrasher]

I really like that concept

except in a furball you will have several airplanes both friendly and foe all around and hard to tell who's who.  remember lots of us are getting up there in years and we need reading glasses to even see the big icons we have now.


semp

[Krusty]

Disregard the critics
who state it's as if flying legally blind. Their opinions are not based in actual long term experience no mater how radioactive they present..

Unmitigated BULLPOOP, and a direct insult aimed at me.

Raven has insulted anyone that brings any kind of facts to the argument. He's an unapologetic IL2 no-icons fan and has repeatedly imposed his "agree with me or I insult you in any way I can" approach to no-icons.

[mechanic]

Every other flight sim I play I fly with no icons with no problems. AcesHigh is no different. It's just personal preference. I prefer no icons as long as everyone has no icons

[jimson]

Not that it would convince those who insist that a few are forcing something on the unwilling, but maybe we should try a survey where we invite people who played in the arena both when we had enemy icons off and when we turned them back on.

Oh wait we already did that.

Your side lost.....    badly.

[Nr_RaVeN]

Unmitigated BULLPOOP, and a direct insult aimed at me.
Raven has insulted anyone that brings any kind of facts to the argument. He's an unapologetic IL2 no-icons fan and has repeatedly imposed his "agree with me or I insult you in any way I can" approach to no-icons.

Now that's BULLPOOP  
You posted before I wrote a word. You drew first blood......  Saying people are chest thumping and elitist is rather insulting.
  Berating folks for the mention of flying no icons in the way you do requires somebody to put your approach in check..
  further thinking folks wont remember what you wrote on the first page of this thread is even more of an insult to ones intelligence Dr. The below post  quote in red clearly demonstrates your Hypocrisy

It's nothing more than elitist chest-thumping for an arbitrary handicap made up by a select few and forced upon the masses.

 If the above initial post you made one the first page of this thread isn't insulting I don't know what is. Perhaps you should read the thread over from the start refresh your memory.
 If you read my responses they are not insulting they are simple facts they are delivered with a respectful tone as well.
 Please do not attempt to skew reality.

[The Fugitive]

ava is dead on arrival because the planes are usually sucky. give us  no icons in a main arena please. you guys tried arena capping for a year before getting rid of it! if all the good playrs play in the no icon arena, the sheep will follow.

AVA is dead because people want to fly their "hot rods". The restrictive plane set turns them off. AVA regulars have tried many different things to draw players in and have at times increased the popularity .....for a short time. Even if the AVA opened up all aircraft it would STILL have a hard time drawing people in and this was proved when the had split the MAs into two. People wanted to be where the "crowd" was and so they while having the choice of the AVA setup just like the MA they would still go for the MA because that was where the crowd was. HTC didn't "try" arena capping, they enforced it. Had the population numbers stayed the same (600-800 players prime time) we would STILL be playing in split main arenas.

Turning off the icons in the MA would result is a huge drop in population much like the "night time" did way back when. You have to remember that HTC is running a business here. Doing something like this would kill their subscription rate. I also doubt very much that the "good players" would just jump on board with this idea either. Many area "good" because of the extra info they have due to the icons. Sure, I'm sure many would "learn" to get better at flying with out icons, but look at how many people refuse to learn how to fight and just go around HOin everything until they die and re-up to do the same thing.

Not that it would convince those who insist that a few are forcing something on the unwilling, but maybe we should try a survey where we invite people who played in the arena both when we had enemy icons off and when we turned them back on.

Oh wait we already did that.

Your side lost.....    badly.

Those percentage numbers really hold up for your side of the "argument", but what was the total number of those polled? 25-30 people?

[Karnak]

I would like a more sophisticated icon system as I think the current system errs too far in the icon's direction.

The purists who want no icons, in my experience, don't want to fight so much as they want to ambush.  Also, look at the non-historical results in the AvA where flying as low as possible so as to be invisible against the terrain while seeing the higher guys against the sky is a common and successful tactic.

[jimson]

Those percentage numbers really hold up for your side of the "argument", but what was the total number of those polled? 25-30 people?

We invited close to 100. Probably had 40 or 50 who responded. I'm not sure, because I no longer have access to that site, just found a couple of pictures I still had.

The purists who want no icons, in my experience, don't want to fight so much as they want to ambush.  Also, look at the non-historical results in the AvA where flying as low as possible so as to be invisible against the terrain while seeing the higher guys against the sky is a common and successful tactic.

That happens from time to time, but even that can be a fun different experience. In my experience, all fights end up on the deck regardless of icons.
I never tout no enemy icons as realistic, just a different experience for those who would like something unique.

I do feel that it looks more immersive.

Where no enemy icons really work well in my opinion is in sea terrains and we do run a lot of those.

Those who think we are trying to set up an opportunity to game some advantage are way off base.
Those who do well in other arenas also do well in this one, it's not that friggin hard. All we have ever done was try to give players a different experience.

If you want to see the history of this setting go to the AvA forum starting about page 34 or 35.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284901.0.html

It really created a lot of new excitement for the arena. Of course it faded after a while and after much arguing in summer of 2011, we decided to try turning them back on.

Well, we got no new converts and almost zero of those who screamed loudest about the no enemy icon settings ever showed up in the arena anyway.

All that we accomplished was to lose several regulars without gaining replacements.

That's why the next time we surveyed players, we didn't open it to just anyone who states strong opinions but will never enter AvA even if they get the settings they want. We compiled names of those we had seen in the arena, names from the pilots statistics of those who were there in both icon on and icon off months who we could match up to bbs names or who we knew how to contact were invited.

We were frankly very surprised. We really expected pro icon votes to win. At best we thought it might be around 50-50. Of course, we realize it's not a scientific poll.

Even now, there is no official policy that a staffer has to run his week with any particular icon setting. Most just choose to do what it seems that our players want, according to the best indication we have.

If we were really that intent on forcing our individual preference down peoples throats, we never would have voted to try turning them back on for several months in 2011.

I'll admit we had a lingering bad taste in our mouths after the one's who constantly insulted us and screamed so loudly about our settings totally ignored our efforts to placate them.

So no, any changes that are made won't be made simply because a few people who have never shown they have a real interest in the arena, constantly berate and deride us.

However, if you want to prove something, then open your own version of AVA in a custom arena with all your guaranteed to be popular settings.

Ought to be easy to fill it with all of the players we have supposedly driven away from AVA. Once you have shown that you can fill it day after day, month after month, come share with us your recipe for success.

what happens with NO enemy icons
is that friendly's tend to gang bang once a bandit is spotted because they can plainly see the friendly's icons chasing something...

I've never understood this. I can see that it might be different with all icons off, but don't see any difference in friendlies ganging no icon enemies and friendlies ganging red icon enemies.

I can't see how enemy icons off increases ganging over enemy icons on.