Panther weak, has something changed?

[RotBaron]

Within the past ~month, I'm losing Panthers at a much greater rate than ever have. I'm also not alone in noticing this. I've counted approx. 5 times where one shot to front has killed it and a few other times where it was 2 or 3 (non-perk enemy or T34's.) Yesterday a Pz H single frontal shot killed me at ~1k. I've also counted 3 times where a T34 (late model) has one shot me to frontal armour, one of these times was ~2.5K.  I'm only talking about frontal shot kills here, I understand the Panther is weak on side and rear of course.

1. Is the Panther weaker than it used to be is the question?


2. Also, the standard perk price seems to be around 15, I believe. Let's generically say, all things are equal, same amount of players on each side, approx how many kills does it take to even out to zero (no perk loss.)  I know different tanks have different values, for simplicity sake lets just use the Pz H, how many to kill to be at zero? 

TIA,

Rot

[Lusche]

2. Also, the standard perk price seems to be around 15, I believe. Let's generically say, all things are equal, same amount of players on each side, approx how many kills does it take to even out to zero (no perk loss.)  I know different tanks have different values, for simplicity sake lets just use the Pz H, how many to kill to be at zero?  

At perk bonus 1.0 (balanced sides) you need 31 kills of Panzer IVH in a Panther to break even. You would need 63 in a Tiger I, 500 in a Tiger II and 12 in a Sherman VC

[SmokinLoon]

First, range and angle of impact are the trump cards.  Just because the chart says your Y tank gun can defeat X tank armor are Z range, does not mean it is going to happen. 

Second, nothing has changed with the Panther.  It is still the beast it has always been.  If something has changed it was not on purpose.

Third, the Panther G has a 12 ENY. In order for you to break even you need to *earn* 12 ENY points. So unless your destroying Panther tanks or better, you need to destroy a LOT more than 12 tanks to just break even.  For instance, if the majority of the targets you're destroying are T34/85's (20 ENY), you'll need to destroy 17 T34/85's in a Panther just to break even.  If the majority of the tanks your destroying at Pzr IV F's or M4/75's, or other such 40 ENY gv's, then you'll need to destroy 34 of them to break even at 12 perk points.  Oh, and that hold try only if the ENY modifier is at 1.0, so remember that.    

[Lusche]

Third, the Panther G has a 12 ENY. In order for you to break even you need to *earn* 12 ENY points.

 



Panther has a  perk cost of 15. This is amount you have to earn before you die. With an ENY of 12, the Panther gets 12/20 = 0.6 perks for each kill of a ENY 20 T-34. So he would have to kill 15/0.6 = 25 T-34/85 to break even

[bj229r]

I've lost so many Panthers to 1-shots from the dead front I don't bother using them anymore---Sherman has a decent enough sight

[Mano]

I use the t-34/85 most of the time. I can kill the Panther with one shot to front armor, but only if I am close at a range of .5 to .6k or less with HVAP. I have never killed one with one shot using AP. The 85mm shell up close is very lethal. I have killed Tiger 1's to front armor as well, but only if I was even closer, say .3k or less. If you up a Panther it is better to shoot long range if you want to land those scalps. the Panthers I have killed at close range may have taken hits already. I 'll never know if they were fresh tanks. Damage accumulates. Many have complained about the Panther's front armor lately. I am just pointing out you may need to change your tactics. I'm sure HiTech will look into it. I often have trouble killing M-4's. I read somewhere they only had 85mm of armor, yet I get lots of ricochets. You have to shoot their front armor low or shoot them low in flank for a one shot kill.

Good luck

 

[Black Jack]

Those T34/85 are a hard thing to kill. Last night I killed some of them at 2.6k. Took me somewhere between 7-10 hits from my tiger 1 to kill them. Angle was from a slightly higher position but still had to drop em in from that distance. They would bounce right off the front. Can't be sure but angle looked like something in the 30deg coming down on him. Is this something that is "normal" or maybe those tanks are a little too much for what they were. He also got approximately 4-5 hits on me in the same exchange of rounds/time.  Good thing my reloader was faster     my 2cent... not a tank expert by any means.

[Volron]

Those T34/85 are a hard thing to kill. Last night I killed some of them at 2.6k. Took me somewhere between 7-10 hits from my tiger 1 to kill them. Angle was from a slightly higher position but still had to drop em in from that distance. They would bounce right off the front. Can't be sure but angle looked like something in the 30deg coming down on him. Is this something that is "normal" or maybe those tanks are a little too much for what they were. He also got approximately 4-5 hits on me in the same exchange of rounds/time.  Good thing my reloader was faster     my 2cent... not a tank expert by any means.

Taking you 7-10 hits, they have sups near em, unless you are counting the ricochet.  Otherwise, it's been (for me anyways) one-two (two if I hit their track) shot kill for the 34/85's.  Angle can factor quite a bit though, yes.  Yesterday I had a Panzer H that was only 600-800 from my M8 score a hit on me.  Fortunately it just ricocheted due to angle.  He didn't get a 2nd hit before I got his turret, then him.

[SmokinLoon]

Panther has a  perk cost of 15. This is amount you have to earn before you die. With an ENY of 12, the Panther gets 12/20 = 0.6 perks for each kill of a ENY 20 T-34. So he would have to kill 15/0.6 = 25 T-34/85 to break even

Sorry.  Got my ENY/perk numbers mixed up.  ENY determines what is earned, the perk cost determines how much is at risk and the starting point for breaking even when earning perk points.  Right thought, wrong formula.  My bad.

[palef]

Don't up them. I die before I see a bad guy whenever I up a Panther. I can spend 15 minutes trolling around a camped spawn in a 75mm equipped M3 and not have a thing touch me, despite hundreds of rounds fired my way. The other pariah is the M18.

"I's a gonna spawn up over at that there spawn point, and done beetle my way around them all's rear."

Nup.

*Spawn* *Bong* *Tower*

[Squire]

Every hit from an AP round is different. You can't just expect because you were hit in a certain way one time that the next time the exact same thing will (or won't) happen. Maybe you just had a bad streak of hits that penetrated the armor...it happens. Unless HTC says the Panther was changed it wasn't.

[bj229r]

Don't up them. I die before I see a bad guy whenever I up a Panther. I can spend 15 minutes trolling around a camped spawn in a 75mm equipped M3 and not have a thing touch me, despite hundreds of rounds fired my way. The other pariah is the M18.

"I's a gonna spawn up over at that there spawn point, and done beetle my way around them all's rear."

Nup.

*Spawn* *Bong* *Tower*

Is there ANYthing more glorious than sneaking up to an enemy tankand blasting him with an M3?

[palef]

Is there ANYthing more glorious than sneaking up to an enemy tankand blasting him with an M3?

No. However, shooting down Skyrock in a Brewster comes close.

[bj229r]

No. However, shooting down Skyrock in a Brewster comes close.

I got shot down by a Brewster last night...sneaky fast, those things are

[RotBaron]

Every hit from an AP round is different. You can't just expect because you were hit in a certain way one time that the next time the exact same thing will (or won't) happen. Maybe you just had a bad streak of hits that penetrated the armor...it happens. Unless HTC says the Panther was changed it wasn't.

I think this has been the case if nothing has been changed; just string of bad luck.

Thanks to everybody for their input.

 

Rot