K4 is easy mode vs. K4 is a symbol of courage

[Debrody]

Sorryes, im horribly simple-minded 

[bozon]

The ENY number for the K4 gets confused by the Ordinance factor. Most think of ENY as how easy it is to get kills, but that's only half the story. The K$ carries no bombs or rockets. So its ENY is lower than a PONY which carries both, and has very long range. You can't close a field with a K4 Raid. Ponies have low ENY because a group can bring 2K worth of bombs across the map, close a field and kill all the fighter that are in the air. K4 can't.
...<snip>

ENY does not represent the capability of a plane in the attack role. There is an OBJ value for that which determine the number of perks one gets in the attack category. As far as I know if you select "fighter" score, you get no perks even if you drop bombs on structures. K4 cannot select "attack", but the pony can.

Anyway, if perks are the yardstick, then the K4 is clearly valued too high in ENY.
From Lusche's stats thread:

The K4 has a much higher than average effective perk/kill score. It means it kills mostly planes of lower ENY than itself. In addition, it is ranked at the top in total perks earned, but is no where near the top in its frequency of usage in the MA. This means that the ENY value assigned to it fits more a plane which is ranked as "below average" fighter in the combined usage and effectiveness. The K4 is both more effective and not rare in the MA.

If you want to compare to the P51D, the latter got to #4 in total perks even though the perk/kill is extremely low. This just reflect its very high usage in the arena.

[Karnak]

ENY does not represent the capability of a plane in the attack role. There is an OBJ value for that which determine the number of perks one gets in the attack category. As far as I know if you select "fighter" score, you get no perks even if you drop bombs on structures. K4 cannot select "attack", but the pony can.

Selecting Fighter, Attack or Bomber has no effect at all on perks gained.  Those settings are for score purposes only.  All fighters have an OBJ of 10, from the Spitfire Mk Ia with no bombs and only .303s to the Bf110G-2 with nearly 9k lbs of damage potential.

[Lusche]

ENY does not represent the capability of a plane in the attack role. There is an OBJ value for that which determine the number of perks one gets in the attack category. As far as I know if you select "fighter" score, you get no perks even if you drop bombs on structures. K4 cannot select "attack", but the pony can.

Attack capability plays a huge role in ENY determination by HTC, as ENY is not only used to determine perk gain but also is a method of controlling the arena via ENY limiter. That's why the 110G has such a low ENY for example.
And as Karnak already said, scoring mode is just that and has no influence on perks. Fighters will always get fighter perks, bombers will get bomber perks, no matter how they chose to score the sortie or what they destroy.

[Vinkman]

The 47M and the Ta 152 can't either, both having ENY 10. 

True but this I think is based on "firepower" advantage for the P-47 and Ta-152. But I think the firepower is a calculated number based on total damage that can be done by the ammo load. It doesn't take into account acual effectiveness. the P47 with 8 .50 cals and 3700 rounds of ammo probably has a huge damage capability number. I find the Spread for bullets in all those wing guns means that most don't land, and the ones that land are scattered over several parts. Because of that, its effective capability is less than the K4 in fighter vs fighter, because one 30mm breaks what ever it hits. 

In summary I think the K4 is a sleeper plane because once you learn to use the 30mm, it becomes much more effective than its "damage total" would indicate. 

Ta 152 is over ENY'd. 

[bozon]

Selecting Fighter, Attack or Bomber has no effect at all on perks gained.  Those settings are for score purposes only.

For 11 years I've been living in a lie!
Perhaps because I dont recall ever selecting the attack mode for any intentional reason.

edit:
But for bombers OBJ does affect the perks gain? because I am quite sure I got some bomber perks without shooting at anything with an icon over it.

[Lusche]

edit:
But for bombers OBJ does affect the perks gain? because I am quite sure I got some bomber perks without shooting at anything with an icon over it.

OBJ affect the perk you gain for destroying structures in everything - fighter, bomber, vehicle all alike.


If you bomb a building OBJ will say how many perks you get, and yor plane type will say where they go to. Your scoring choice only affects where the score from this attack/sortie is written to.

[Ardy123]

ENY does not represent the capability of a plane in the attack role. There is an OBJ value for that which determine the number of perks one gets in the attack category. As far as I know if you select "fighter" score, you get no perks even if you drop bombs on structures. K4 cannot select "attack", but the pony can.

Anyway, if perks are the yardstick, then the K4 is clearly valued too high in ENY.
From Lusche's stats thread:
(Image removed from quote.)
The K4 has a much higher than average effective perk/kill score. It means it kills mostly planes of lower ENY than itself. In addition, it is ranked at the top in total perks earned, but is no where near the top in its frequency of usage in the MA. This means that the ENY value assigned to it fits more a plane which is ranked as "below average" fighter in the combined usage and effectiveness. The K4 is both more effective and not rare in the MA.

If you want to compare to the P51D, the latter got to #4 in total perks even though the perk/kill is extremely low. This just reflect its very high usage in the arena.

As self serving as this may sound, the K4 on average attracts much better pilots too and that makes a huge difference.

[bozon]

As self serving as this may sound, the K4 on average attracts much better pilots too and that makes a huge difference.

Somewhat true, but that does not affect the perk/kill statistic. It only means that its a perk machine for veteran players. Not that this really matters to a vet since if other are like myself they have more perks than they spend by a factors of a few. If on the other hand the "buy perk rides for everyone" mission suggestion is accepted I will care more about earning perks. Doing a horde mission in 262s strifing the town and acks is worth a few K perks for me
Or a mass Mossie XVI raid, but that will require a lot of A20 and SBD hours to get the perks for that.

[titanic3]

109G6, Ki-84 and P38J for easy perk farming.  Handles almost everything that's thrown at them.

[muzik]

An other nonsense, Messiah.
First, climb rate =/= turn rate.
Then, the spit8/16 climbs just as good as the k4.
After that, an energy-fight is not a turn fight.
And finally, a rope-a-dope is not a turnfight, is not elegant, and the luftsticks who have some pride stuck into them, wont use this. Just like how the worthy pony sticks dont run for the first sight of danger - ask BigR.

Luft sticks most certainly do use the vertical. All the time as a matter of fact. It's what I was refering to when I said "so close you can almost touch them." Holding the nose up and hanging on its prop is in the vertical even if it's not gaining altitude. And that is the k4s bread and butter.

[muzik]

Oooo... The Snail lands a solid point.  

Snail always has a solid point and has charts to back it up.

[mechanic]

The K$ is right up there with the p51D and the spitXVI. It is incredibly easy to win a fight in once you learn even the most vague basics of the game's flight model. However, out of those three uber rides I would say it is also the most fun to fly well in. The p51D is also fun but due to the great guns it lends itself more to hit and run tactics. The spit XVI holds almost no enjoyment for me personally, though I have no problem with anyone who does enjoy it.

[Ack-Ack]

109G6, Ki-84 and P38J for easy perk farming.  Handles almost everything that's thrown at them.

I really wouldn't consider the P-38J as a good perk farmer, unless 99% of your kills are late war birds like the P-51D, La7, FW190-D9, etc.  It's an average perk gaining plane in my opinion. 

ack-ack

[killnu]

ENY does not represent the capability of a plane in the attack role. There is an OBJ value for that which determine the number of perks one gets in the attack category. As far as I know if you select "fighter" score, you get no perks even if you drop bombs on structures. K4 cannot select "attack", but the pony can.

Anyway, if perks are the yardstick, then the K4 is clearly valued too high in ENY.
From Lusche's stats thread:
(Image removed from quote.)
The K4 has a much higher than average effective perk/kill score. It means it kills mostly planes of lower ENY than itself. In addition, it is ranked at the top in total perks earned, but is no where near the top in its frequency of usage in the MA. This means that the ENY value assigned to it fits more a plane which is ranked as "below average" fighter in the combined usage and effectiveness. The K4 is both more effective and not rare in the MA.

If you want to compare to the P51D, the latter got to #4 in total perks even though the perk/kill is extremely low. This just reflect its very high usage in the arena.

So, based on this logic, clearly the A8's eny is to high?  I would go on to say since the 51 is used over 3 times as much it should probably be perked.

Stats are an amazing tool that can be used to support whatever conclusion you want.