ENY values that may need HTC's attention

[Karnak]

We don't know all of HTC's intentions with a given ENY rating, or how they weight in game usage, air-to-air capability, air-to-ground capability and ease of use.  It may be that all of the ENY's are right where HTC wants them.

However, from player's perspectives there are some that stand out as being perhaps needing to be reexamined.  Please post examples of ENY values you think might need to be adjusted and why you think it needs to be adjusted.

Bf109K-4 (ENY 20) or P-47M (ENY 10), Spitfire Mk XIV (ENY 5, 10 Perk Points) and Ta152H-1 (ENY 10).

The Bf109K-4 is at least competitive with the other three fighters and in some cases is superior.  All four fighters are functionally air-to-air interceptors only.  Either the Bf109K-4's ENY is too low or the other three fighter's ENYs are too high.

Bf109F-4 (ENY 35) or Spitfire Mk V (ENY 25).

The Bf109F-4's usage and K/D are higher than the Spitfire Mk V (per Lusche's charts) and it has significantly higher performance.  The guns favor the Spitfire Mk V, but it has a short ammo clip of only 6 seconds compared to more than 15 seconds for the Bf109F-4's single 20mm cannon.  Both are functionally air-to-air only.  Either the Spitfire Mk V's ENY is too high or the Bf109F-4's ENY is too low.

Ki-84-Ia (ENY 20).
The Ki-84 is a very capable, all round fighter.  It has decent firepower, range, agility, speed, durability and bomb load.  It seems, based purely on performance, that its ENY is too low.

Mosquito Mk VI (ENY 30).
The Mosquito is fast at typical AH combat altitudes, has tremendous, concentrated firepower, a good bomb load and is pretty durable.   It seems, based purely on performance, that its ENY is too low.


Any others?  Fw190A-8?  Any of the F4Us?  P-51B?  Any others too high?  P-39s or P-40s?  Me410?  What do you guys think?

[mtnman]

I'm guessing they're right where HTC wants them...

I don't think things can progress in a meaningful direction without mentioning the Spit16, LA7, and P51.  All are extremely low ENY (and must stay so) but all are quite capable.

[hitech]

We don't know all of HTC's intentions with a given ENY rating, or how they weight in game usage, air-to-air capability, air-to-ground capability and ease of use.  It may be that all of the ENY's are right where HTC wants them.

It may be time to take a look if anything thing needs to be adjusted.

HiTech

[Ninthmessiah]

 Hitech, I think you should publish the rubric so the finer points of eny could be debated by the masses on the wishlist forum.  Assuming a rubric even exists.

I don't think the p47M is a 10ENY plane.  More like 15ENY.  At typical MA alts, The F4U-1A is faster and turns better.  Waayy better.  Their acceleration is the same [just bad].  The p47M may out-dive the hog, but the ability to run away is not really a fun reason for the lower ENY.  Offensively, your gonna chop throttle in a dive anyways because even the jug compresses.  It compresses before the pony does too. That info is somewhere in these forums.  The P47M beats the ki84 in top speed, but the ki84 still out-accelertes, out-turns, and out-climbs the P47M [at typical MA alts].  The P47M is outclassed by the K4 in all respects up to 30,000ft.

The best argument for such a relatively low ENY value in the Jug is the 8 .50s, but I think the lethality of 8 .50s is overestimated.  First you have to maneuver for a shot.  And when you do, you have to hit at convergence for that OMG8FIFTYSGOBOOM effect.  Otherwise, the guns seem marginally better than those of the F4U-1A.  Just my $0.02.

And then there's the F6F-5, the best plane that no one is flying.

[SmokinLoon]

Hitech, I think you should publish the rubric so the finer points of eny could be debated by the masses on the wishlist forum.  Assuming a rubric even exists.

I don't think the p47M is a 10ENY plane.  More like 15ENY.  At typical MA alts, The F4U-1A is faster and turns better.  Waayy better.  Their acceleration is the same [just bad].  The p47M may out-dive the hog, but the ability to run away is not really a fun reason for the lower ENY.  Offensively, your gonna chop throttle in a dive anyways because even the jug compresses.  It compresses before the pony does too. That info is somewhere in these forums.  The P47M beats the ki84 in top speed, but the ki84 still out-accelertes, out-turns, and out-climbs the P47M [at typical MA alts].  The P47M is outclassed by the K4 in all respects up to 30,000ft.

The best argument for such a relatively low ENY value in the Jug is the 8 .50s, but I think the lethality of 8 .50s is overestimated.  First you have to maneuver for a shot.  And when you do, you have to hit at convergence for that OMG8FIFTYSGOBOOM effect.  Otherwise, the guns seem marginally better than those of the F4U-1A.  Just my $0.02.

And then there's the F6F-5, the best plane that no one is flying.

The lack of ord and lack of turning ability alone should get the P47M up above 12 ENY, imo.  Forget everything else.

[Karnak]

The lack of ord and lack of turning ability alone should get the P47M up above 12 ENY, imo.  Forget everything else.

In your opinion, does that go for the Spitfire Mk XIV and Ta152H-1 as well?

[Zoney]

Part of the reason I choose an aircraft is also the visibility offered.  The big bars in the way on the 109K4 certainly make it more difficult the spitfires, P51's, etc.

[Karnak]

Part of the reason I choose an aircraft is also the visibility offered.  The big bars in the way on the 109K4 certainly make it more difficult the spitfires, P51's, etc.

Sure, but does that justify the ENY 20 for the Bf109K-4 compared to the ENY 5 for the Spitfire Mk XIV when they have otherwise similar performance with some edges to the Spitfire and some to the 109?

[Zoney]

Sure, but does that justify the ENY 20 for the Bf109K-4 compared to the ENY 5 for the Spitfire Mk XIV when they have otherwise similar performance with some edges to the Spitfire and some to the 109?

I was not arguering about specific values, only offering my opinion of one of the things that effect what makes an aircraft more/less desireable.  I really love the way the P38 handles but I find blind spots in it more pronounced because of the visibility limitations the twin engines afford.  I highly value Situational Awareness.  Visibility effects that alot I believe.

[mtnman]

Hitech, I think you should publish the rubric so the finer points of eny could be debated by the masses on the wishlist forum.  Assuming a rubric even exists.

Maybe this would be a good way to begin.  I doubt HTC will post theirs, and even if they do I'm sure some of us would ask for revisions. 

So... Let's create our own system for ranking, and see where that places the different planes.  It would probably be fairly easy to do in Excel, based on various criteria- speed, accel, decel, firepower, climb, etc.

In the end though, I think we're going to need to include a large, diverse selection of high-performing planes that have little or no ENY.  Some of the best "standard" (i.e. non-jets) planes need to be available at no perk-cost, and no risk of being limited due to ENY controls.  These need to be there so that new players with little or no perks and skills have a hope to compete against the veteran players.

Maybe the best method would be to rank all of the existing planes, and then label a bunch of them as "ENY exempt"?

[Karnak]

Unfortunately I suspect that it would be anything but easy to create a matrix upon which a broad consensus can be reached.  Everybody will have different levels of importance that they assign to various aspects being measured as well as disagreements about things that cannot be precisely measured such as cockpit visibility, instrumentation, durability, shape/size affects and armament value.

[ink]

you mean the Ki84 ENY is to high?

I agree should be around 10

[guncrasher]

b17's should have an eny of 5.  all thanks to 999.


semp

[Wmaker]

Well, two that come to my mind straight away are Hurricane Mk.II and Me410.

[caldera]

B-17 and B-24 both have 20 ENY.  The difference in survivability is much bigger than the difference in bombload.  The B-17's ENY needs to be less than the B-24's.  the Lanc is 15, so make the B-17, 17.

109 G14 is 25 ENY and should be 20.  109 K4 is 20 and should be 10-12.

110G and 410 are 15 but Mossie6 is 30.    All three should be 20 ENY.

The B-239 is 30 and should be 25.

The F4U-1 is 25 and should be 20

The F4U-1A is 15 and should be 10-12

The 190 A8, A5 and F8 are all 25 ENY.  The F8 lacks the firepower of the A8 and the handling of the A5.  The A5/A8 should be 22 ENY.

The G4M1 is 30 ENY, while the Ju88 is 35.    The Betty is 40 ENY all the way.

The Ki-43 has no business at 40 ENY.  Try a 40 ENY Spit I, Hurri I or C.202 against it.  Even an A6M2 can't hang with it.  New ENY of 32.

La-5 is 25 and should be 20.

P-38L (15 ENY)is comparable to the F4U-1D (10 ENY)in bomb trucking.  P-38L drops to 12 ENY.

P-38J's only difference from the L is rocket tubes.  New ENY 15.

P-47M and N are both 10 ENY but M carries no ords.  47M is bumped to 12 ENY.

Ki-84 is 20 ENY and should be 12.