Author Topic: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI  (Read 788 times)

Offline Gman

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Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« on: April 26, 2013, 02:39:59 PM »
I've always wanted an arena where I can jump in anytime, where there is a "campaign" of battles running continuously, sort of like the AI dynamic campaign back in Falcon 4.  

This is what I mean - Have the AvA arena populated by swarms and formations of AI aircraft running bombing missions and fighter sweeps, but also have the capability for "human" players to jump into any of these missions or aircraft.  When BoB is running in the AvA arena for example, I would love to see multiple He111 and Stuka missions going on along with the Spitfire, Hurricane, and other Brit planes running defense, and have the ability to join any of these missions as a human player.

This way, not only would there be lots of action going on, but it would feel much more realistic, like an FSO event without having to actually organize and populate an FSO event with real live players.  

I'm not sure if this is even possible, and I've never tried any of the offline missions to even get a feel for the AI, but I for one would think this type of arena would give the MA a fun for its money, and in addition give players who complain endlessly of the "hordes, ho-ing, lack of fights, too many fights, etc etc" a place to call home when they tire of whatever ails them in the main arena setting.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:41:48 PM by Gman »

Offline bustr

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 03:56:00 PM »
Everyone gets a trophy for showing up...........
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Offline Noir

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 04:06:24 PM »
+1 I think it's in the works
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 04:29:11 PM »
You do realize this means the Allies win, right?

Bombers:

B-17G
B-24J
B-25C
B-26B
B-29A
Boston Mk III
Lancaster Mk IIII
Mosquito Mk XVI

vs

Ar234B
G4M1
He111H
Ju88A-4
Ki-67


Attack aircraft:

A-20G
B-25H
Il-2

vs

Ju87D
Ju87G


Carrier fighters:

F4F-4
F4U-1
F4U-1a
F4U-1c
F4U-1d
F4U-4
F6F-5
FM2
Seafire Mk II
Sea Hurricane Mk I

vs

A6M2
A6M3
A6M5b


Carrier strike aircraft:

SBD-5
TBM-3

vs

B5N2
D3A1


Axis does hold the advantage in armored fighting vehicles:

Panther V G
Panzer IV D/F
Panzer IV H
Tiger I
Tiger II

vs

M4A3(75)
M4A3(76)
M8
M18
Sherman Firefly VC
T-34/76
T-34/85


The Axis dominates AA vehicles:

Ostwind
Wirbelwind

vs

M16


But the Allies own the amphibious assault vehicles and boats.

LVT(A)2
LVT(A)4
80' Elco PT-Boat

vs

...
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:44:06 PM »
Fought to 1945? Of course. It was practically over in 1944.

Presuming equipment will be developed at the same pace as it was historically on each side.

I predict the atom bomb will be delayed somewhat.

 :D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 04:46:26 PM by Arlo »

Offline Karnak

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 04:53:35 PM »
Fought to 1945? Of course. It was practically over in 1944.

Presuming equipment will be developed at the same pace as it was historically on each side.

I predict the atom bomb will be delayed somewhat.

 :D
Given there wouldn't be an atom bomb, yes, somewhat delayed.

That said, with that bomber lineup the Allies don't need one either.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 04:57:22 PM »
Given there wouldn't be an atom bomb, yes, somewhat delayed.

That said, with that bomber lineup the Allies don't need one either.

Ahem ... presuming equipment will be developed at the same pace. Which ... reasonably ... could (even should) happen. But what if it didn't? What if the Allies set their B-29 program aside while the Axis pushed the Arado faster?  :cool:

Ever play Axis and Allies? You could even start the Axis with a bit of an advantage. With such, the Axis are battling the Allies ... and time. I would venture that the Axis winning the war in mid 1944 or later would be rare.

Now, a question , in turn - what bomber did the Axis develop that could equal what the Allies produced, in real life?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:08:00 PM by Arlo »

Offline Lusche

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 05:24:14 PM »
Now, a question , in turn - what bomber did the Axis develop that could equal what the Allies produced, in real life?

None?

Well, the four engined versions of the He 177, the He 177B / He 277 / He 274 perhaps, but they didn't go into serial production.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 05:35:10 PM »
None?

Well, the four engined versions of the He 177, the He 177B / He 277 / He 274 perhaps, but they didn't go into serial production.
G8N as well.  Maybe the P.108 or H8K2.

None could match the B-29 though.

As far as getting the Ar234B before the Allies get the B-29, well, when do the Allies get the Mosquito Mk XVI, B-17G, B-24J and Lancaster Mk III?  I don't think the Ar234B matches any of the four engined bombers in terms of game use, and only matches, not exceeds, the Mossie.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:36:55 PM by Karnak »
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 05:39:11 PM »
Karnak, with attack you missed the Bf-110 series, Fw-190F8 and Il-2. Those three are formidable. Not the 'self-protecting' package of speed such as the Typhoon but in a good mix, more than enough to cause fits for the other side.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 05:45:33 PM »
Karnak, with attack you missed the Bf-110 series, Fw-190F8 and Il-2. Those three are formidable. Not the 'self-protecting' package of speed such as the Typhoon but in a good mix, more than enough to cause fits for the other side.

Boo
Il-2 is on the list.  It is Allied.

The Bf110, Fw190 and Typhoon I considered fighters.  They can, of course, be pressed into service as attackers.  As can the great bulk of late war American fighters as well as the Mossie and Me410.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 05:57:29 PM »
I like the idea. The biggest drawback of AvA in my experience has been that 1) No one is there and 2) Almost everyone is on the same side.

Just run "scenarios" (IE, Guadalcanal campaign, or BoB, or Defense of the Reich, or Eastern Front) with limited plane sets rather than a beginning-to-end RPS.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 06:05:21 PM »
The "which side will win or has better equipment" thing IMO could be mitigated and controlled by rules/eny/etc, there are many options with regards to this problem.  Limiting the numbers of the AI formations, etc etc - so many possible ways to balance the sides out, if you're looking for gameplay balance and fairness as opposed to "historical realism".  Heck, you can have both, some nights for example run a BoB or East Front map with realistic squadrons and numbers and such, and other nights have the game balancing tools in effect.

To be specific, this is what I was thinking of:  Recently I've been yearning for the experience I used to "feel" in older games like Aces of the Pacific, and even Falcon 4, where you played a campaign and felt like a small cog in a huge wheel.  I recently bought both of the Battle of Britain flight sims, Battle of Britain 2 with its superb new patch/realism mod, and Il2-Cliffs of Dover, which too has undergone a recent patching/modding, and is much better than when it was released.

While both of these games are great in their own respects, BoB 2 especially for that feeling of huge formations of L/W bombers and British fighters swarming about, they both lack that "Aces High 2" feeling of actually FLYING a simulation to me.  What I'd be shooting for with my wish list request would be an experience that BoB2 or even Clod provides in terms of a single player campaign experience, combined with having the option to have AI planes "taken over" per se by human pilots a la massively multiplayer fasion (shameless Dale plug), along with AH2's superior flight model and game fidelity.  Again, it would be like an FSO experience that could be jumped into at any time by any player.  It wouldn't take away anything from FSO or scenarios either, as the whole point here is to have something that doesn't require the intense planning and participation required by those events, yet recreates their experience and greatness for players wanting something like that at the tip of their fingers.

edit :
Quote
The biggest drawback of AvA in my experience has been that 1) No one is there and 2) Almost everyone is on the same side.

Exactly Sax, this is one of the reasons I don't fly AvA, even though it SHOULD be rights be the place I'm most interested in.  I think the idea I'm spelling out would go a long way to fix this, as even if there was nobody else online with you, you would still have a great time as there would be TONS of AI stuff flying around, with pre planned auto-missions and the like open for anyone to join, or even create and populate with their own AI wingman.  If other live players happen to join in, so much the better, the more the merrier right, and you could have your real life squamates populate several AI squadrons, and have just a few of you lead dozens of planes into action.

Quote
Just run "scenarios" (IE, Guadalcanal campaign, or BoB, or Defense of the Reich, or Eastern Front) with limited plane sets rather than a beginning-to-end RPS.

I didn't mention rolling plane set at all, and it's not something I like in any shape or form myself, so I agree with you, and that in fact was the idea I thought I was getting at - just run scenarios in this "new" AvA arena for a set period of time, then change to a new one.  There would be no shortage of participants wanting to write new AvA AI arena setups I'm sure.  It would be like being the CM of an FSO/event, but you wouldn't be limited by numbers or participants, as you could create large numbers of AI formations and flights of whatever you wanted.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 06:19:33 PM by Gman »

Offline bortas1

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2013, 08:58:44 AM »
 :salute I like the idea. having the whole of ah on a single side to see how it would work. ah vs ai  which side matters not to me. I would wonder how many benders would be there to kill all humans.  :cheers:

Offline icepac

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Re: Axis v Allies Arena combined with AI
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2013, 11:27:16 AM »
Main arena at warbirds had some super aggressive fighter AI back in 2005 which was just crazy.

I enjoyed it.