incendiary machine gun ammo

[Zoney]

Semp, you can ignite gasoline with fire, trust me. You're right, you can't do it with a cigarette ember, you need combustion. We went over that.

Sir, you have either misunderstood what you have been taught, you have been taught incorrectly, or you are guessing.  Once again, the vapors from the gasoline are what is burning not the liquid.  No, you cannot expect to spray a burning fire with gasoline to put it out because as you spray the liquid it is changing state from a liquid to a gas and the gas will burn.  Gas is not a liquid, gasoline is a liquid.

A carburetor on a gasoline engine pulls the atmosphere across a venturi with liquid gasoline behind it.  As that occurs, the gasoline changes state to a gas and is then ignited with a spark.  A fuel injected engine must use a high pressure pump which forces the liquid gasoline through a small nozzle under the high pressure the pump has created, only then will the liquid gasoline change state as it travels to the low pressure area and becomes a gas which can then be ignited.

Please, I may have oversimplified the above statements.  I did however attempt the explanation without calling you names.  Kindly have the civility to answer in a like manner.

Thank you.

[guncrasher]

Semp, you can ignite gasoline with fire, trust me. You're right, you can't do it with a cigarette ember, you need combustion. We went over that.

Look, you guys have pretty good grip on how oxidation works, which is what fire is. But your application of that is hilarious. Technically, wood doesn't burn, it's a solid, cant oxidize fast enough, therefore a log cabin is fireproof right?

If shooting gas tanks with incendiary ammo doesn't start fires then the history books have it all wrong and AH has some serious issues with it's damage model.

wood is mostly carbon and carbon resists oxydation better than metals.  but it needs a lot of heat before it can ignite.  that is one reason most people have a hard time lighting the barbq.  you will have a hard time igniting wood with a lighter but that doesnt mean the wood is fireproof.

as for you op, incendiary rounds need to stay in the fuel tanks for it ignite the fuel.  but I am not sure why you ask that they lower the chances of a fuel tank catching on fire if they dont use tracers.  I think most american planes were using api,specially in the pacific, as they japanese didnt use self-sealing fuel tanks.


semp

[Zoney]

Yes LIQUID GASOLINE is combined with something else to make it more viscous. To make it stickier and more projectable, not to make it more flammable.

This part of your statement is correct.  The liquid fuel is a combination of many chemicals.  Some of the chemicals are there to hold the liquid in the liquid state so it may be projected farther.  But then it is the edges of this liquid where a change of state has occurred from a liquid to a gas that is burning.

[FLOOB]

Jesus Christ. Yes I know that rapid oxidization takes place only in gases. Technically solids and liquids do not burn, everybody knows this except semp, as you can see my comment about wood went over his head.

The problem is using this 7th grade science factoid to rationalize why incendiary/tracer ammo wont set planes on fire. And before someone tries to impress us with their fund of technical knowledge, yes, I know that planes are solid objects and therefore don't technically burn.

[gyrene81]

Sorry Floob, but although you claim to understand the concept, your statements aren't supporting that. I have to ask if you have ever shot a tracer round into a full can of gasoline. I have, multiple calibers. A completely full 5gal can of regular gasoline won't ignite, but a 1/2 full can will blow if the vapors in the empty space get ignited. It's pretty energetic too.

Also, gasoline doesn't require combustion to ignite. Just like every other flammable substance it requires a heat source and oxygen. Once again, it is not the liquid that ignites, it is the vapor layer that is created as the liquid evaporates. When you see a gasoline fire, it's not the liquid that is burning, it's the vapor layer on top of the liquid that is burning. That effect is very visible if you pour gasoline on a flat surface then light it. A lit cigarette can ignite gasoline vapors, not as easily as a lit match but it can be done.

[Chalenge]

The American AP rounds are more incendiary than tracers, especially against Japanese aircraft.

John Bolt of VMF-214 conducted experiments on F4F and Japanese wrecks and after discussions with the Black Sheep C.O. (Boyington) forwarded combat reports through their information officer (Walsh) which led in Marine and Navy forces of the Pacific to modify their ammunition belts. The ammunition load that the Black Sheep used (and by extension all Navy and Marine aircraft after the VMF-214 combat report) was six incendiaries (APIT) followed by one AP and one tracer. What is interesting is that his experiments indicated that at low AOT (angle off target) the incendiaries (APIT) had very little chance of penetration.

[FLOOB]

Once again, it is not the liquid that ignites, it is the vapor layer that is created as the liquid evaporates. When you see a gasoline fire, it's not the liquid that is burning, it's the vapor layer on top of the liquid that is burning. 

Just like any other flammable liquid.
Yes I know, and I just wrote as much in my most recent reply. But saying that gasoline doesn't burn is equivalent to saying wood doesn't burn. Both statements are as technically true as they are ridiculously pedantic.

[gyrene81]

Just like any other flammable liquid.
Yes I know, and I just wrote as much in my most recent reply. But saying that gasoline doesn't burn is equivalent to saying wood doesn't burn. Both statements are as technically true as they are ridiculously pedantic.

  you start off really good then end with a fizzle...

[FLOOB]

And you end with ad hominem.
 

[Zacherof]

Gas+foam=crappy napalm. 
Isn't willy Pete phospherous?

[BuckShot]

Gas+foam=crappy napalm. 
Isn't willy Pete phospherous?

Willy Pete = white phosphorous

~S~

[tunnelrat]

Tracers WILL light brush on fire... my unit in the USMC was responsible for setting numerous fires on Hawaii because of it 

I have a pic around here somewhere of one of them... let's see...

[earl1937]

Tracers WILL light brush on fire... my unit in the USMC was responsible for setting numerous fires on Hawaii because of it 

I have a pic around here somewhere of one of them... let's see...

Now I understand why gas prices are 4.50 to 5.00 a gallon! Its to darn hard to make it burn! LOL