Author Topic: One determined dog...  (Read 4052 times)

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4133
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2013, 08:11:38 PM »
Following that logic, why don't we have "Swimming with Great whites" like those "Swimming with Dolphins" attractions.

I mean, if you treat the sharks right and make sure they are happy and train them, then it should be safe right?

The kids would have a ball I say!

RTR
Your reality obviously is a bit skewed.
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4133
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2013, 08:13:43 PM »
No, if it's your position that the owners are to blame, it's down to you to provide stats to back it up, not him.
shhhh, men are talking.
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2013, 09:11:17 PM »
Guess that means you've got nothing to back your claims.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline mtnman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2438
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2013, 10:21:16 PM »
What breeder inbred them.

The different breeds were essentially created by inbreeding.  And losing those attributes is one of the biggest reasons for breed degradation.

Inbreeding was used to enhance specific characteristics, and was a way to limit genetic variation (normally we consider genetic variation to be a good thing, but when you're trying to create a breed of dogs that differ from one another very little, genetic variation is a detriment).

To create a breed of dog, you essentially pick out an animal that has attributes you like (color, size, temperament, whatever...), and breed it with an animal that is as close to your initial "ideal" animal as possible.  You then take the off-spring and compare them to the original animal.  

Now, the offspring are only 50% of the original "ideal" animal...  Those attributes you liked so much are diluted by the mate you chose for your ideal animal...

So, you now take the "best" of the offspring (the one closest in attributes to your original ideal) and breed it back with the original "ideal" animal.  You breed the mother with her son...

Now look the offspring over again, and pick out the one closest to the original ideal.  That offspring is now 75% of the original "ideal", so you're getting closer to your goal...  Breed the mother with her grandson, and then with her great-grandson, and repeat and repeat and repeat...

Now, of course you will enhance the attributes you're looking for, but will also enhance attributes you don't want.  Those animals that show attributes you aren't trying to enhance would generally be "culled".  Nowadays, we'd hopefully not allow them to breed; historically they probably just did away with them.

Without that careful inbreeding we wouldn't have the different breeds of domestic dog that we have nowadays.

Kind of puts the "Hitler-istic" comments made earlier in a different light.

MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline mtnman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2438
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2013, 10:43:00 PM »
No, if it's your position that the owners are to blame, it's down to you to provide stats to back it up, not him.

Some big "ifs" here, but...

IF the owners are to blame, and IF the PB is responsible for a large percentage of dog/human attacks, does it stand to reason that PB owners may be less responsible as a group than other dog owners?

Personally, I don't think that really explains it.  I'm guessing that PB owners are similar in "responsibility" as owners of other breeds, and also similar to the rest of the population when it comes to skill in training (which isn't generally all that high).

It may simply be that some breeds of dog require a higher level of skill to be successfully trained, and/or aren't as tolerant of mistakes made in training.  That's not far-fetched; that's a simple fact when it comes to animal training.  Similar training methods don't work equally well for all animals, and don't necessarily work equally-well when it comes to training different breeds.

A significant portion of dog behavior is just innate; "placed" there and enhanced by breeding.  Pointers point; retrievers retrieve; working dogs herd; hounds scent-trail; malamutes pull; and terriers want to catch little furry critters, all through innate, inherited behavior. 

Sure, you can get dogs to work outside of that behavior to some extent, but most will never "master" it...  It's really tough to get an animal to go against (or suppress) its innate behaviors, especially long-term and without constant reinforcement. 

In some cases we're probably dealing with dogs that have been historically bred to exhibit certain traits, but are then attempting to suppress those traits because they're undesirable in our current situation.  Purchasing a dog because you like the way it looks may be a good "recipe" for that situation.
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4133
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2013, 09:51:52 PM »
Guess that means you've got nothing to back your claims.
Negative, mam. I realized I was arguing with stupidity and pure ignorance. Decided to move along. You can only talk to a rock for so long, then you realize its a rock.
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline MarineUS

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2679
      • Imperial Legion
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2013, 11:54:38 PM »
Negative, mam. I realized I was arguing with stupidity and pure ignorance. Decided to move along. You can only talk to a rock for so long, then you realize its a rock.

Then you can throw it! :D
Like, ya know, when that thing that makes you move, it has pistons and things, When your thingamajigy is providing power, you do not hear other peoples thingamajig when they are providing power.

HiTech

Offline Zacherof

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
Re: One determined dog...
« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2013, 12:06:14 AM »
In game name Xacherof
USN Sea Bee
**ELITE**
I am a meat popsicle