Combat Trim.. What does it 'Do' ??

[WW1965]

ok, I've been playin since mid Feb, & I'm gettin the hang of a few things..

But the one that just baffles me is Combat Trim..
What does it do ??
When to turn it on or off ??
Does it depend on speed ??
Can it be set to a speed ??

Or is it better to leave it off & learn to live without it all together ??

Thx!!

W-W

[ImADot]

You'll get many opinions as to its use.

Basically it adjusts your trim settings based on speed. It is not perfect, but does a good job to get your plane trimmed up if you're all jacked up. It doesn't work very well on either side of the speed envelope for the plane - too fast or too slow makes for strange things sometimes. Using flaps really messes it up.

I usually use CT most of the time. I'll turn it off when in a stall-fight when I'm using flaps a lot, and it's off when I'm landing.

[Wiley]

Combat trim basically assumes a clean airframe and sets your trims based on your airspeed.  I believe it adjusts in 5mph increments, something like that anyways.  Missing parts will put you out of trim when using combat trim.  Heavy with ords doesn't seem to make too much difference from what I have seen.

I use it most of the time.  If I'm BnZing, I leave it on because my speed is varying a lot through an attack run.  It's also good for the phase after I've autoclimbed to alt and am looking for a target.  Set it and forget about it.

Where I find it to be a hindrance is during stallfights.  You can be much smoother with your turns at low speeds without it constantly affecting the inputs you're giving your plane.  The differences are small, but that's generally where stallfights are won, is the little things.  My usual rule of thumb is to turn it off when my speed hits 150 if I figure it's going to turn into a stallfight.

Landing, I usually leave it off particularly if I'm missing parts.  I get my flaps out and hit autotrim on angle at the speed I want until the pipper stops moving, then move the stick to turn it off and proceed to land.

Wiley.

[Ack-Ack]

On some planes like the P-38, it's best to use manual trim instead of combat trim.

ack-ack

[Wiley]

On some planes like the P-38, it's best to use manual trim instead of combat trim.

ack-ack

Other than using it to get out of high speed dives, does it really make much difference on the 38?  I barely notice when that thing's out of trim ever.  In game, I only ever trim it up and down until the inevitable part shedding occurs.

Wiley.

[Triton28]

Other than using it to get out of high speed dives, does it really make much difference on the 38?  I barely notice when that thing's out of trim ever.  In game, I only ever trim it up and down until the inevitable part shedding occurs.

Wiley.

The 38 is very easy to trim.  Elevator is all that's really needed unless you've got parts missing.

Per AkAk's suggestion (I think  ) in another thread, I started setting elevator trim to slightly nose down to help compensate for nose jump.  Pretty big difference in nose stability when in a fight, especially when going vertical to get that shot at the top of a loop. 

[Hap]

Or is it better to leave it off & learn to live without it all together ??

for now, leave it on.

When you have time, go offline.  Scream straight down till you're shaking like a rag doll.  Mash on the K key.  Have your E6B open.  K trims up.  I trims down.  Play with that for a little with a few planes offline.

[gyrene81]

dam, thanks Hap, you just reminded me of the 2 button settings i forgot on my joystick...

[Randy1]

On some planes like the P-38, it's best to use manual trim instead of combat trim.

ack-ack

I had switched to manual but got lazy and stayed with CT on.  I will go back to manual again as you suggested.

Just a note on the 38 to those having yet to try manual trim.  If you do use manual up trim to pull out of a high speed dial it does act like the 38 has flaps down till you get it trim again

[morfiend]

 Combat trim is a sort of auto trim,it's based on a set of scales based on airspeed.

   One thing CT doesn't do is compensate for flaps,if you deploy flaps you'll notice that CT dials in full up trim on the elevator. This is what some players have difficulties with,at lower speeds and with flaps deployed you have to counter the nose up pitch.


   This can cause problems when trying to aim as you're giving forward stick to counter the pitch and you can have issues with nose bounce.

  Even the 38 with the counter rotating props has issues with the nose up pitch when using CT, this is why most dedicated 38 drivers use manual trim as you only really need to adjust the elevator trim.


   I still use CT about 90% of the time,I have a button to toggle CT on/off and use a hatswitch to adjust my trim as needed. I use CT because it reduces pilot load and I find the only time I need to use manual trim is when I'm approaching flaps speed.


    YMMV.

   

  PS: If you fly 109's a lot having a button to trim up the elevator is a must,ideally you should have both up and down trim mapped.

[FA_Refugee]

I have been experimenting with going from CT on to CT off at XXXspeed depending on the aircraft and prior to getting into the fight. ie: F4U-1A  XXX = 325 indicated then I turn off CT and now ready to fight.  For HurriII, Zero's, Ki-43 the XXX speed I use is 280-300. Once I turn CT off it stays off for the duration of the sortie.

Does this process help handling the aircraft control and gunnery?
If so, what is the optimal XXXspeed for each fighter? (or how do I calculate the XXXspeed by aircraft?).

[morfiend]

 I'm not sure if I can answer your question but you might want to use "trim set" that will lock the trim setting at the speed your at when you press the command. By default it's the period key,it basically sets the trim that combat trim has slected for the speed you are going.  {hope this makes sense}

 As far as helping with handling,control and shooting,personally I think if it works for you go with it. There are so many variables that it's difficult to say exactly. Some will say set the trim to neutral around corner speed,myself I leave CT on until in need to deploy flaps then I go to manual trim,some just let CT do it's thing and others trim their plane manually through the whole flight.

   So while experimenting is good if it aint broke don't fix it.  I think working on your SA is more important than working on trim as the game has a auto type trim built in but it does little to help with SA.


   YMMV.


   

[The Fugitive]

What I find is when you get slow and are dropping flaps the CT will over compensate. What happens in a 38 is you zoom to 30-40 mhp (piece of cake to flop over even that slow) if you have CT on it will get "stuck" in the air. Recovery is slow and you will always miss your shot you worked for. With CT off it is easy to rudder and roll right over and pop how ever many were foolish enough to follow you up.

This effect gets worst in single engine planes and really hurts any turning ability you try to get out of them at slow speeds. I most cases I get to alt, level off building speed to 300-375 depending on which plane Im in. Nose down just a bit, let off the stick then kick off the CT. In most cases this "nose low" setting lets e fly at most fighting speeds with out having to mess with trim. YMMV, but it works well for me.

[Babalonian]

It's a thick/multifaceted subject to digest with just one question.  Many great contributions to it already.


First, I'd like you to notice where the trim tabs/gauge/display is in your particular aircraft, it shows the current position of your three trim settings (elevator, rudder and ailerons).

Second, go fly some sorties, pay regular attention to what is going on with your trim in auto-combat-trim mode.  Particularly how it is constantly tweaking/adjusting for every change in speed.

Lastly, experiment with it off and your own trimming, noting already where about it should be normally for your flight condition and for what you want to do/accomplish.


I mostly fly with combat trim on, but will disengage it by entering in some manual trim at the very bleeding edge of stalls or to compensate for damage.

[Gman]

As Ack Ack said, some planes are very easy to fly with CT off.  The 109 for a beginner pilot CT will help quite a bit, but in stall fights, and near top diving speed, it's handy to have a toggle to flip it on and off, and there is a setting for this in AH2's control setup for your stick/throttle buttons.  The 109 I've always found myself using manual trim most of the time, and using Ack Ack's tip for trimming nose low works very well with the 109 as well to cut down on floppy nose, as its armament is all in the nose (most of the time) as well. 

The best thing you can do is follow everybody's advice here, and leave it on for now, but map a button on your HOTAS if you have one to toggle it on and off, and map a hat for elevator and aileron trim.  Elevator is the one you'll be using most of the time, so if you have limited stick buttons, make sure that's the one you pick. 

As a new pilot's skills progress, and flaps start being used more and more in fights, you'll find that switching combat trim off as soon as combat is expected will become automatic.  As stated here, flaps and combat trim mix very badly, and make your nose point very strangely, to the point where you'll be fighting it in no time trying to keep your nicely aimed shot lead in the place it should be.