Author Topic: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?  (Read 2436 times)

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2013, 05:54:20 PM »
ok consider this, the dnr calls for a cull...let's say 10% based on estimated population of 3000 within a 200 square mile region. why not relocate 5% to another region with a smaller population or even another state with a lower total population and more natural habitat, then still cull 5% for whatever purpose the locals are happy with? i know of some areas where the white tail population could use some renewing and there is plenty of space for them...
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Offline whiteman

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #136 on: May 17, 2013, 06:08:51 PM »
relocated animals generally die within a year.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #137 on: May 17, 2013, 06:15:41 PM »
maybe in texas but not other states...
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline whiteman

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #138 on: May 17, 2013, 06:18:58 PM »
No, thats every where...

Offline whiteman

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2013, 06:22:46 PM »
just some info, btw i don't hunt.

"Studies have shown that approximately 4% of the deer die in transport, as many as 25% of translocated deer die within the first two months of trapping and translocation, and more than 85% of deer may not survive longer than one year.* These deer tend to have high mortality rates resulting from capture-related injuries, unfamiliarity with the release site and encounters with new mortality agents.

Many deer suffer from a type of trapping stress called capture myopathy. Capture myopathy is a degenerative disease of skeletal muscle associated with the increased muscular exertion and over stimulation of the nervous system as a result of the capture, restraint, and transportation of animals. Illness and death may result due to disruption of normal circulation, muscle tissue damage, and electrolyte imbalance. Affected animals may show muscle tremors or muscle rigidity, weakness, hyperthermia, respiratory difficulty, collapse, and death. Animals that do not die acutely may succumb later due to inadequate oxygen supply to the kidneys and from toxic products of muscle breakdown.

This technique has the potential to spread harmful diseases such as Chronic Wasting Disease and Tuberculosis from one deer population to another."

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2013, 06:26:09 PM »
so the mortality rate is high enough that it relocation isn't a viable option? something is wrong with the methods being used then...then again, maybe there are too many for the land to support due to conservation efforts.  :headscratch:
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline whiteman

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #141 on: May 17, 2013, 06:27:21 PM »
if 85% die within a year i'd say it's not.

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2013, 06:35:58 PM »
I think BaDkaRmA158Th must be a vegan...  :huh

No i eat meat.



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Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2013, 07:00:16 PM »
You're a cannibal?
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Offline eagl

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #144 on: May 17, 2013, 07:12:07 PM »
I think it ought to be legal as long as it is done with traditional low-tech equipment.  No motorized boats/vehicles of any sort (including spotter aircraft), no explosives or propellants, etc.  Just some dudes in a human-powered boat chucking a spear at the whale.  They could pretty much eliminate any catch quotas if this was the rule, but I suppose you could put in a catch limit of 10 per year per harpooner.  So one harpooner could feed his village and maybe sell off one or two for some cash, but not really make a full time living or get rich from whaling.

I think that would ensure that people who *need* to hunt whales could continue to do so, while discouraging doing it for fun/sport/profit.  Even those hunting whales for "science" ought to be required to obtain their catch using these measures, but I guess we could allow them to buy whales pre-hunted so we don't lose too many real scientists to Davy Jones.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #145 on: May 17, 2013, 07:18:10 PM »
Eagl, it's an industry, not a sport. We're discussing commercial whaling, so I guess that means your against it?
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Offline eagl

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #146 on: May 17, 2013, 07:27:18 PM »
so the mortality rate is high enough that it relocation isn't a viable option? something is wrong with the methods being used then...then again, maybe there are too many for the land to support due to conservation efforts.  :headscratch:

We simply have removed too many predatory animals.  Lots of places where we have reduced or eliminated predators like large cats and wild canines, especially pack animals, natural prey populations have surged out of control.  Hunting laws and bag limits sometimes don't keep pace, and the populations then get decimated by disease or starvation.  That's pretty dumb...
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Offline eagl

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #147 on: May 17, 2013, 07:34:58 PM »
Eagl, it's an industry, not a sport. We're discussing commercial whaling, so I guess that means your against it?

Nope, not against it.  I just think that from a long-term perspective (I mean REALLY long term), the risk of over-hunting (ie. making a mistake) outweighs the requirement for whale meat as a food source.  So, by all means make it commercial but make it nearly impossible to exceed sustainable catch limits.  Lots of marine hunting/fishing industries have strict limits on what technology can be used to ensure over-fishing doesn't happen, and whaling isn't that much different.  So as a practical matter, put the whalers in rowboats with hand-thrown harpoons and have at it.  As I said before, we probably don't need to bother with catch limits under those equipment restrictions.
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Offline eagl

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #148 on: May 17, 2013, 07:39:26 PM »
I've read historical accounts of massive whaling fleets, and it's certainly doable from a business perspective.  Every morning before dawn, the mother ship sends out a dozen or more hunt teams in rowboats.  They use lights on the mothership for positioning, and fan out up to a few miles from the ship in a line across the known routes the whales usually travel.  Everyone is in place when the sun comes up, and then the hunt begins.  Using that system against a robust population, even a small a whaling fleet can catch dozens of whales every day.  It's just not EASY, and that's ok with me.
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #149 on: May 17, 2013, 07:47:05 PM »
you want to go from sustainable whaling using the most humane method possible to sustainable whaling using spears, massively increasing the whales suffering? I'd like to hear you justify that ...
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