Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?

[GScholz]

come on man, do you really think that i couldn't take 2 or 3 million dollars and get whatever population numbers i want in writing as "official"? that's not conspiracy theory, it's a fact of human greed. there aren't very many people who wouldn't shag a camel on live webcam for a couple of million dollars.

This research isn't done by one individual; it's scrutinized by the scientific peer-review system. What Norwegian "whaling corporation" can afford to spend 2 or 3 million Dollars on bribes? There is no "whaling corporation" in Norway. Each single boat is its own little company and the total first hand value of the whaling fleet's total yearly catch is no more than five million Dollars. There are only 18 whaling ships active in Norway, and they're not exclusive whaling vessels, but also harvest fish. We're not talking "big oil" here, but a small diversified industry of small companies, each with a handful of employees working on each boat. The chance of political or scientific corruption is negligible. Of course that won't change the mind of someone who sees corruption and conspiracies everywhere.

[danny76]

Scoffing whales is not the same as scoffing cows,pigs, chickens etc. Whales are not farmed and tgeir populations do not reproduce sufficiently rapidly, thus they are a finite source

It appears the general concensus is you guys should knock it off.

BTW Scholtz, what is your opinion of the Faroe celebration?

[gyrene81]

peer review system? so, there is more than one organization monitoring the minke whale population worldwide and they exchange notes...ok
so if i could get a few researchers to say the population of minke whales is less than 100,000 worldwide, in writing, "peer reviewed" authentic...what effect would that have on the Norwegian fishing boats and the economy in general? if you dig a little bit, you can find falsified scientific data that was "peer reviewed" and passed as truth until someone came clean or blew the whistle.

not saying that anything fishy is going on in Norway, there are probably no dishonest people in charge, but...as a general rule, in the global economy and international politics we have to deal with, corruption isn't an exception.

[GScholz]

Danny, try to understand that they are not a finite resource. Their population is increasing by the thousands each year. Any "ritual" that leads to unnecessary suffering of animals is deplorable. Any harvesting that depletes a otherwise renewable natural resource is deplorable.

[GScholz]

Gyrene, you wouldn't get that number peer reviewed because the paper would be challenged by other scientists who are not "on the take". The scientists at the Norwegian oceanic research department and Universities are not financially dependent on the industry they're researching. They get their salaries from the Norwegian state. During the 1990's they set the quotas very low and for three years they outright banned whaling in Norway due to an unknown negative development in the minke whale population (possibly disease). This led to economic hardship for the whaling fleet, but that is irrelevant to the science and conservation of this resource.

[Karnak]

Done responsibly I'll leave it up to the nations who's water it is.

Only comment I have is that I have heard from a Japanese person in regards to their whaling that nobody eats it because it tastes terrible and it is only continued because of hard line nationalists that don't want to bow to international pressure.

I can't speak to the Nordic nation's whaling at all.

[GScholz]

Karnak, from the enemies of whaling themselves:

"According to the Guardian, of the 1,873 tons of whale meat processed in 2001, 70 tons went unsold."

http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/whale-wars/about-whaling/japanese-whalers-japan-whale-meat-popular.htm

That's not a very large percentage of waste.

[GScholz]

Episode two!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5kItY6ZQH4

[gyrene81]

Scholz, obviously you and many of your fellow Norwegians feel harvesting minke whales is a necessity and the way the industry is handled is proper...at least it's not like some places where people starve in the streets and the livestock is treated with the reverence of some deity...or those places where the people eat grass to survive while those in power get fat eating caviar for breakfast.

don't be so surprised when people don't agree with your justification of acceptance...considering the other viable food resources at your countries disposal, there just isn't any real justification.

[GScholz]

You see Gyrene, we don't do only what is necessary. We do what we want, as long as it is done responsibly. And I also get the impression that you also do things that strictly are not necessary. Whaling is not a necessity. Whaling is something we want, and do.

[GScholz]

Gyrene, you seem to think everything people do needs to be justified. I am of the complete opposite opinion: Everything you want to prevent people from doing needs to be justified. If there is no reasonable justification for limiting or banning an activity it should be allowed.

[RTHolmes]

I dont see what people's problem is here, these minke arent endangered, they live free in the wild and are killed as humanely as possible. compare that to the average chicken, which spends its entire life in conditions which could reasonably be described as torture. or most farmed animals come to that.

I think the main problem is that people dont know, or want to think about where their steaks and chicken nuggets come from.

 


edit: and since its been recommended by someone who knows about it, I'll be trying whalemeat if I happen across it now

[GScholz]

 

[VonMessa]

I dont see what people's problem is here, these minke arent endangered, they live free in the wild and are killed as humanely as possible. compare that to the average chicken, which spends its entire life in conditions which could reasonably be described as torture. or most farmed animals come to that.

I think the main problem is that people dont know, or want to think about where their steaks and chicken nuggets come from.

 


edit: and since its been recommended by someone who knows about it, I'll be trying whalemeat if I happen across it now

I believe that you are correct.

[gyrene81]

Gyrene, you seem to think everything people do needs to be justified. I am of the complete opposite opinion: Everything you want to prevent people from doing needs to be justified. If there is no justification for limiting or banning an activity it should be allowed.

seriously? by that line of thinking, there is a very dangerous predatory mammal that carries some very nasty diseases and is extremely destructive to the entire planet. with a global population of 6 billion and counting and the ability to reproduce quickly, i should be able to destroy as many as i can by whatever means i have at my disposal without any objection from anyone at any time. the animal is so prolific and destructive that in many regions there isn't enough food resources for it to survive and the young have a high mortality rate. maybe by killing the most dangerous and destructive specimens as well as those that don't have the capacity to care for themselves, a healthier stock will result.

all things considered, no justification should be needed to kill as many as needed to bring the population under control and possibly save other species that are affected everywhere the animal exists...would your country have any objections if i started in Norway?