Author Topic: Why the competition sucks  (Read 758 times)

Offline pembquist

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Why the competition sucks
« on: May 20, 2013, 01:59:15 AM »
I downloaded War Thunder for S and Gs. The absence of snap views is so idiotic it leaves me speechless. AH is so spare by comparison but it works and has its priorities straight. War Thunder by comparison looks like some kind of Pavlovian money extraction device that figures a flying game might work on the monkeys. http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/18641-snap-view-keys/
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Offline The Fury

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 12:46:29 PM »
Yeah apart from the graphics its not much of a game, I think the only way it is fun is if you only try to think of it as a quick arcade game the flight model is awfull the guns are way out of whack the dmg model is insane but for some reason its fun its not even on the same level as AH2 tho like I have said many of times before.

No hat views is ridiculous damn

I personally don't understand why anyone would leave ah2 to play wt  :headscratch:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 12:55:37 PM by The Fury »
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Offline RumbleB

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 03:09:53 PM »
The only thing wart hunter  has in common with aces high is that hte exe file is named aces.exe and it has these things that are supposed to represent military airplanes.. some present in ah2 but they might as wel have named Tiefighter X. it's an instanced third person mouse and keyboard shooter disguised as a combat sim. it's clever smoke n mirrors.


I just used glovepie and had snapviews just the same but it doesn't make the gameplay any better when alll the planes feel likke (the ones that don't have a glitch.. like the spit16 is completely useless because it has a glitch from the instructor mode. the other planes are just stupid copy and paste, u can go 100% on elevators in tnb's and not get punished.
but the flight model and everything sucks so much it doesn't matter.. plus, there are no icons so you gotta tweak the graphics to chase after dots uauh... also it's INSTANCED.
I hate this pseudo mmo bs lie.

but they know how to get players.. the front end, the graphics are great, better profile.. achievements n basically stuff that make people obsessively play because "just two more battles the nI can unlock a new plane " bla bla.
It's a lot of smoke n mirrors, there are 30000 players online right now compared to the 200 of aces high. granted it's free to play but I'm pretty sure their microtransactions eclipse ah2 but... the game is a moue and keyboard shooter. joystick is completely useless in the arcade and slightly less arcade but stll totallly arcade.

There's no skill depth which is evident by looking at people's K/D that's why it gets so many people interested.. the joystick mode is just tacked on to disguise the game as a flight sim when it's just a generic shooter..

The "joystick" mode is broken I wouldn't even clal that toejam an alpha test but they're still selling shiet.. frb they call it... but still, there's 550 players playing that now... few do which is like a minority of the players.. also like, half are russian and can't speak english. this game is mainly a free 2 to play shooter with a pretend combat flight sim element.

the gameplay is shallow... but it has front end and graphics-  (granted, it's easy to make great instanced graphics, even tho someone said there'll be 100v100 matches or whatever .. )
I wish ah2 had... and im an old school quake player who used to make the game look like totally tubular lego rather than max gfx. but I come back after 4 years and jump in a typh/temp and its still teh same old ugly cockpit from decades past.
and I'm getting like 600 fps in MA with my 7 year old quad core (new gpu tho)

thing with a low skill depth game like that is, the only thing keeping most people is the obsessive grinding.  once the max out levels have unlocked all planes ( I mean I kill people who are "max level" and have plyed 5x hours more than me.. or killed.. I got aa stick now and back to ah2).

People love thikning they're good at something.. being LEVEL 68 or whatever (yes people are level 68 n stuff.. whatever that means.. ). but in reality they've just mindlessly grinded matches and haven't improved in actual playskill past week 1 since there's no way to do so. It's mastery in false sense of achievement... I see the obsessive entertainment sense of it but really, this is the kind of totally tubular game where you're just lpaying to get more points so that you can unlock something else.. like working in real life to buy a car. xcept you get super fighter ur the man awardss!! toejam's sad. grind games are sad and at the end of the day the points dont mean toejam.. play a game cause its fun, play an multilayer game cause u enjoy competing and measuring urself. wt just tricks people into thinking theyre achieving toejam and this masks the fact that it's a really bad game.

War thunder is like mcdonalds. marketed well and very accessible with flash and clowns. but the food sucks... aces high 2 is like, a hobo in an alley but he happens to make the best damn burger in the whole world, if u eat it ull just want to keep eatin more of them and they taste better every time.. problem is this hobo also tries to stab you in the face while smelling really bad aand doesn't know what year it is but.. it doesn't matter because the few people who got past the stabbing and had the burger keep coming back.. i just wish that hobo would get a shave.. open a restaraunt and be a bit more accessible.   I can see what war thunders "idea" is... they get people to play this mouse and keyboard space shooter and then they think .. hm it must be "kewl" to play with a joystick and what is that joystick only mode bla bla .. then they go play a proper game that doesn't have a skill depth someone can hit in a week (rather than years of ah2). but that joystick "full realism" is pretty much smoke and mirrors... the game becomes an ah2 competitor once it's an actual mmo and not instanced that does'nt have terrible fm, inaccurate stats etc.

Dno whether they're capable of doing it but their team is bigger, the game makes more money than ah2 and it's only ob.. it's like all the MMORPG's, they die out within 1-2 years because they're just grindfests with no real gameplay, no skill depth (just artificial levels).ah2 still has a player base that is roughly staying the same size because ... actual gameplay where you can still get better after 4-5 years or .. win in new ways and it's up to you.

if they put emphasis on ACTUAL skill and gameplay then it'd be a homerun but heh.. and id regard it as a competitor and better than ah2 but I'm not waiting 13 years and I don't trust that they have the kind of people who understand how to balance gameplay skill depth etc on their dev team.

It's just a cartoon shooter. it's fast food and everyone gets sick of fast food (or die prematurely). To me it's simple, they should just copy and paste ah2 for their realism mode only 13 years of work allbeit they probably have a sweatshop of "devs" now. then it'd have longevity and be a good combat flight game eclipsing ah2 (but this prob won't happen since I doubt hitech would lend them a hand), instead of garbage served with a special toy.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 03:32:10 PM »
The only thing wart hunter  has in common with aces high is that hte exe file is named aces.exe and it has these things that are supposed to represent military airplanes.. some present in ah2 but they might as wel have named Tiefighter X. it's an instanced third person mouse and keyboard shooter disguised as a combat sim. it's clever smoke n mirrors.


But as a game, it seems to be quite successfull,and dragging quite a good number of players away from AH.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 03:37:25 PM »

But as a game, it seems to be quite successfull,and dragging quite a good number of players away from AH.

Qualify the last part of your sentence, please. I'd like the pie chart or graph backed with concrete data.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 03:39:07 PM »
But as a game, it seems to be quite successfull,and dragging quite a good number of players away from AH.
i would say, distracting rather than dragging away. like wot, it's a fun arcade distraction for those who enjoy console type mulitplayer games.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 03:50:40 PM »
Qualify the last part of your sentence, please. I'd like the pie chart or graph backed with concrete data.

No pie chart at the moment, but...

Early April I noticed a sudden decline in numbers online on the login screen (you all know I keep an eye on those things). As I played mostly at non-prime time, it was very notable that the arena was much less populated than in the past months. More often than not dropping below 50 players even. While the numbers have generally been declining for years, this very quick reduction made me look at it in detail.

Looking at the 'combat activity' measured in kills (just look at the plane stats page) revealed a rather sudden reduction by 20-30% after the US WT server went online. Of course I can't prove a direct connection, but personally knowing quite a number of players which I positively know to have switched over, I now believe that WT had (and still has) a notable impact on the number of players online in AH.

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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 03:58:52 PM »
Of course I can't prove a direct connection, but personally knowing quite a number of players which I positively know to have switched over, I now believe that WT had (and still has) a notable impact on the number of players online in AH.

Are these players friends that you have regular contact with? Have you been tracking returns?
And is it simply arena numbers you're using? Are you playing the other game in question and running
into those same players? Are they telling you they cancelled their AH account? Did they tell you
they were never returning and why? Do you leave your connection to AH on constantly?
Are you taking into consideration other potential factors? Are you comparing annual or seasonal trends?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 04:03:13 PM by Arlo »

Offline Lusche

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 04:12:33 PM »
Are you taking into consideration other potential factors? Are you comparing annual or seasonal trends?


I take into consideration a lot of other factors, including seasonal ones. I've been tracking this stuff meticulously for many, many years. Such abrupt changes in overall activity are extremely rare, and mostly the result of single events, like considerable changes in the game itself (as for example the switch from AH1 to AH 2).
But of course I could be missing something. So if anybody knows another factor that could rather abruptly reduce AH activity....  :old:
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 04:21:39 PM »
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Offline coombz

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 04:22:14 PM »
I have played it a few times on and off, can never really get into it though.

I use TrackIR so the views stuff doesn't bother me...it's just such a dumbed down flight model and there is no tension or excitement in the combat...bleh

I wish I could like it because I yearn for a flight sim with decent graphics, but just can't do it

The one aspect which makes it completely superior to AH in my point of view though, is that I can actually get some action whenever I fire it up :aok  Whereas with AH it becomes increasingly hard to find combat

Mostly I just leave my joysticks and pedals unplugged and play dota
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 04:24:59 PM by coombz »
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 04:27:31 PM »
So...say a decent stick in here were to go there, he should pwn right???
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 04:28:49 PM »
So...say a decent stick in here were to go there, he should pwn right???

Not necessarily.

Very much different games, gameplay modes and 'flight models'.
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Offline coombz

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 04:31:52 PM »
So...say a decent stick in here were to go there, he should pwn right???

Consider the following points and decide for yourself:

I am not a particularly good stick by AH standards

I fly WT missions where you get the most points by shooting GVs or AA guns or capturing bases or something, and I ignore all that and just shoot down planes

I fly the crappy default planes that you get at the start because I haven't played long enough to unlock anything else

I am still not used to the crappy flight model and my aim is pretty terrible

I always get the top score for that 'match' or 'mission' or whatever you want to call it
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Why the competition sucks
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2013, 04:41:41 PM »

I take into consideration a lot of other factors, including seasonal ones. I've been tracking this stuff meticulously for many, many years. Such abrupt changes in overall activity are extremely rare, and mostly the result of single events, like considerable changes in the game itself (as for example the switch from AH1 to AH 2).
But of course I could be missing something. So if anybody knows another factor that could rather abruptly reduce AH activity....  :old:

You do take all that under consideration?

You originally surmised a player population shift from AHII to WT.
You've mentioned that you came about such a conclusion from:

1. arena numbers you are meticulously tracking during non-prime time.
2. 'quite a number' of players which you 'positively know to have switched over.'

And now you say you've taken a lot of other factors into consideration.

I dunno, man. From what claimed observations I've seen you post
so far, all I can see is a drop in non-prime time and that you've had
'quite a number' of friends opt out for a free to play graphic candy
game. I tried that game. Meh.  :D