262 vs F-86

[MiloMorai]

A Me262 of 1947 would not be the Me262 of 1945. It would have had 45 degree swept wings and more powerful engines.

[GScholz]

Indeed. The 262 HG I prototype flew in late 1944. The HG II would have had a low-drag canopy, 45 degree wing sweep and a flying V-tail. In this 1946-47 "what if" the Allies would also not have benefited from German research into swept wings.

[Zacherof]

Sexy vixen they are! Most wishthe war would have been different to see thar stuff

[Debrody]

Sexy vixen they are! Most wishthe war would have been different to see thar stuff

Yea, and an other couple millions would have died.

[drgondog]

Top speed would not be affected by a 4% reduction in weight. Given a nominal climb rate of 3,900 ft/min a 4% reduction in weight (4% increase in thrust/weight ratio) would make for a difference of about 150 ft/min.

As for the questions regarding rigging and stability it is clear that the 262(s) were tired and in poor condition, not even having functional servo tabs; they probably weren't in very good condition to begin with having been built with basic tools in a forest clearing somewhere in Germany during the closing months of the war in Europe.

Btw. thanks for the report. Interesting reading.

T-2-711 and T-2-4012 and 711 crashed after engine failure.

As to 'no affect' to 4% reduction in Weight?  W=L ; the CL' (new CL) is a function of (1-.04)*W/(qS) = (1-.04)W/(1/2*rho*((1-.04)*V')>>2)*S) where v' is slightly more than V at GW=14000.

It ain't much but CL for the 13500 is less than CL for 14000 and CL>>2 is less for induced Drag, enabling higher speed for same thrust... and lower W/L and more excess power over drag for 13,500 vs 14000 which enables higher ROC.  I'm too lazy to run the iterations for v' and solve for CL'.

Summary - weight reduction consistent with structural integrity improves all key performance metrics.

[GScholz]

The 262 carries approx. 3,200 lbs of fuel. Take one up offline set fuel burn to 0.001 and see how much of a difference there is in top speed with 100% and 25% fuel. You'll notice that the difference in top speed at SL is no more than 1-2 mph, and that's with a weight difference of approx. 2,400 lbs. You seem well versed in aerodynamic nomenclature, so I'm sure you know that induced drag only represents a minute part of total drag at such high speeds. A 4% reduction in weight would not affect top speed of the 262 in any measurable way; at least not with 1940s instruments.

[Zacherof]

Yea, and an other couple millions would have died.

I've stated on other threads how for theoriretical reason why it would be interesting to see what germany would produce, along with japan.

Of coarse more would have died and I'm glad and it was ended when it was

[GScholz]

I'm also glad the war in Europe ended when it did. It would have ended in 1945 no matter what fancy aircraft the Germans thought up, with the USAAF dropping a fat boy or a little man on Germany first, rather than Japan.

[Zacherof]

I'm also glad the war in Europe ended when it did. It would have ended in 1945 no matter what fancy aircraft the Germans thought up, with the USAAF dropping a fat boy or a little man on Germany first, rather than Japan.

thank god for the incompetance kf the German high command and ignorance towards the field commanders.

[save]

Sounds like a the A8 would win in all parameters without the extra armour we have in AH  

T-2-711 and T-2-4012 and 711 crashed after engine failure.

As to 'no affect' to 4% reduction in Weight?  W=L ; the CL' (new CL) is a function of (1-.04)*W/(qS) = (1-.04)W/(1/2*rho*((1-.04)*V')>>2)*S) where v' is slightly more than V at GW=14000.

It ain't much but CL for the 13500 is less than CL for 14000 and CL>>2 is less for induced Drag, enabling higher speed for same thrust... and lower W/L and more excess power over drag for 13,500 vs 14000 which enables higher ROC.  I'm too lazy to run the iterations for v' and solve for CL'.

Summary - weight reduction consistent with structural integrity improves all key performance metrics.

[Bruv119]

Every aircraft in AH out-turns the 262. Doesn't help them one bit.   Speed is the dominating factor of air combat with guns only. A lesson the Japanese were rudely taught by the US.

I wouldn't say speed is everything,  planes still have to manoeuvre into a shooting position to kill anything.  In some cases when 2 planes have to actually dogfight and there is no way out, I know which attributes I would rather have on my side.   

[GScholz]

Our A-8 doesn't have that much armor. It isn't a sturmbock model. However a few hundred pounds less weight will make a noticeable improvement in agility, but not in speed.

[Megalodon]

The OP's intention was for laughs I'll have you know

laughing at the OP   

[GScholz]

I wouldn't say speed is everything,  planes still have to manoeuvre into a shooting position to kill anything.  In some cases when 2 planes have to actually dogfight and there is no way out, I know which attributes I would rather have on my side.    

If you have greatly superior speed you won't have to dogfight anyone. That's why the 262 is just about impervious to everything in AH, except the ineptness of its own pilot.

[Zacherof]

laughing at the OP    

If you have greatly superior speed you won't have to dogfight anyone. That's why the 262 is just about impervious to everything in AH, except the ineptness of its own pilot.

check your messages both of ya