Training area trainers.

[800nate800]

Training planes, T-6(harvard,snj) Stearman, Bf-108, why not?

[Zacherof]

Well we have 2 advanced trainers that the Americans used, p39 and p40. Bud Anderson stated in his book about them. 

[Babalonian]

P39 and P40 are good for advanced trainers, but the OP may be onto something and I like the idea of a T-6.  A 108 or trainer version of any advanced fighter might be a little far reaching though.  Most made-in-America (and british commonwealth) aviators during WWII learned to fly in a T-6 (Harvard, Texan and SNJ).  They put in many hours and probabley broke a few parts on these planes before seeing their first outdated P39/40 (or, in most cases, bomber/transport aircraft) for advanced training.  Many navy pilots in WWII also learned/performed their very first carrier deck landings and TOs in a T-6 (SNJ-Cs).

[gyrene81]

what would the purpose be other than "oooh that's cool"?

if very basic pilot skills were to become a requirement before being allowed to fly more advanced aircraft, especially in the main arenas, then those planes would have a purpose. even then, the basics can be taught in a ww1 biplane which already exists. carrier takeoff and landing can even be taught with a biplane because we don't have weather or waves.

[Fish42]

The oscar would work fine as a basic trainer. damn thing will float at 40mph, and stalls are gentle and easy to recover from.

The Warraway Trainer would could be added, as it was used as a front line fighter by the Aussies because all the Brewsters had been lost and we only had them and the Hudsons left to fly as fighters/escort/interceptors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_Wirraway

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 27 ft 10 in (8.48 m)
Wingspan: 43 ft 0 in (13.11 m)
Height: 8 ft 8¾ in (2.66 m)
Wing area: 255.75 ft² (23.76 m²)
Empty weight: 3,992 lb (1,810 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 6,595 lb (2,991 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney R-1340 radial engine, 600 hp (450 kW)[/li][/list]


Performance

Maximum speed: 191 knots (220 mph, 350 km/h)
Cruise speed: 135 knots (155 mph, 250 km/h)
Range: 720 miles (630 nm, 1,200 km)
Service ceiling: 23,000 ft (7,010 m)
Rate of climb: 1,950 ft/min (9.9 m/s)

Armament

Guns: 2 × 0.303 in (7.62 mm) Vickers Mk V machine guns synchronised to fire through the propellor arc and 1 × 0.303 in (7.62 mm) Vickers GO machine gun on a flexible mount in the rear cockpit. Later versions had no Vickers Mk V guns, but had provision for 2 × 0.303 (7.62 mm) Browning AN-M2 machine guns mounted under the outer wing panels.[9]
Bombs: If no observer is carried,
2× 500 lb (230 kg) bombs
2× 250 lb (110 kg) bombs

[Zacherof]

My post was simply to stir the pot if you will

[Fish42]

Was there any other countries trainers pushed into front line service in WW2?

I am not talking about old fighters being used to train new pilots. I.E, like the oscars used by the instructors to shoot down B-29s.

[earl1937]

Was there any other countries trainers pushed into front line service in WW2?

I am not talking about old fighters being used to train new pilots. I.E, like the oscars used by the instructors to shoot down B-29s.

If you can fly a T-6 in a 45 degree, 20knot cross wind and stay on the runway and in one piece, you can fly anything! If you can "wheel" land a T-6 and keep it stright, you can fly anything! Best trainer ever built! (Of course I know the "Stearman" guys are going to argue with that, but the stearman had much wider gear spread than the T-6)

[LCADolby]

Squadron Leader Skipper: How many hours in Spits?

Simon: Ten and a half, sir.

Squadron Leader Skipper: Let's make it *eleven*, before *Jerry* has you for *breakfast!*

[Babalonian]

what would the purpose be other than "oooh that's cool"?

if very basic pilot skills were to become a requirement before being allowed to fly more advanced aircraft, especially in the main arenas, then those planes would have a purpose. even then, the basics can be taught in a ww1 biplane which already exists. carrier takeoff and landing can even be taught with a biplane because we don't have weather or waves.

Only downside is that it would be a Training arena and trainers toy/addition.

I'm sure if they weren't good at what they were utilised for, in the middle of WWII, the resources/effort to build and maintain thousands of them would of been quickly invested elsewhere.

"if very basic pilot skills were to become a requirement before being allowed to fly more advanced aircraft" - I think most trainers in AH can play witness to new players knowing only basic arcade-flyign skills and stepping into an AH P-51 represents a huge leap in "skill" for many novice and first-time players to this game.

Read up on T6s if you're curious, they turned simple farmboys into competent American aviators, and did have a very valuable purpose.  Also could be great for gunnery training, they were built with one single mounted cowl/nose gun (.30cal) and one single wing mounted gun (.50cal) so pilots would learn about differences in ballistics and trajectories and also about convergences.

I don't think they got to see combat in WWII but did see some in Korea and even Vietnam being used as forward air control ac.  The first combat they saw I think was by Syria against Isreal after WWII.

[gyrene81]

that is the point Babalonian, there is no logical reason for dedicated training aircraft in aces high, nobody's life is in danger and you get a brand new airplane for free if you wreck one. you can "train" for as many hours as your hands and butt can handle withou penalty. a ww1 biplane or even a storch is as good as any to learn basic flying skills.

[The Fugitive]

Squadron Leader Skipper: How many hours in Spits?

Simon: Ten and a half, sir.

Squadron Leader Skipper: Let's make it *eleven*, before *Jerry* has you for *breakfast!*

Did you get permission to use that quote? Don't let Challenge catch you using quotes or other stuff from movies with out permission! 

[ink]

Did you get permission to use that quote? Don't let Challenge catch you using quotes or other stuff from movies with out permission! 

 

 

[Fish42]

If you can fly a T-6 in a 45 degree, 20knot cross wind and stay on the runway and in one piece, you can fly anything! If you can "wheel" land a T-6 and keep it stright, you can fly anything! Best trainer ever built! (Of course I know the "Stearman" guys are going to argue with that, but the stearman had much wider gear spread than the T-6)

not really sure why your quoting me?

[Fish42]

that is the point Babalonian, there is no logical reason for dedicated training aircraft in aces high, nobody's life is in danger and you get a brand new airplane for free if you wreck one. you can "train" for as many hours as your hands and butt can handle withou penalty. a ww1 biplane or even a storch is as good as any to learn basic flying skills.

Which is why I posted about the Warraway. It was a trainer, that saw combat, and recorded a kill in the early days of the pacific war.

Both the Warraway and T6 where based on the NA-16 aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBfsxlsEB4k