Author Topic: Tank  (Read 2622 times)

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4134
Tank
« on: May 23, 2013, 08:21:34 PM »
The old tank setup back. The new one is complete garbage.
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: Tank
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 11:23:54 PM »
bwahaha!!! you gettin smoked in the tanks? toolin around in gv's is ez once you get used to it...
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Zacherof

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
Re: Tank
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2013, 02:04:09 AM »
The old tank setup back. The new one is complete garbage.
not exactly sure why but I am way better with the current system than the last. Atleast give us x back :pray
In game name Xacherof
USN Sea Bee
**ELITE**
I am a meat popsicle

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4134
Re: Tank
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 03:03:10 AM »
not exactly sure why but I am way better with the current system than the last. Atleast give us x back :pray
The whole setup is retarded. Hate the sights. Cant zoom them in. Me having diabetes and bad eyes i cant see watermelon through them now. If its not broken, DO NOT fix it.
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: Tank
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 03:54:27 AM »
The whole setup is retarded. Hate the sights. Cant zoom them in. Me having diabetes and bad eyes i cant see watermelon through them now. If its not broken, DO NOT fix it.

The current sights work very much like their counter parts in the real life did regarding the magnification and sight picture/reticles. As AH's is to simulate WWII equipment it is better to simulate the individual sights instead having the old generic sights with way too much magnification.

One would think this is straight forward enough to grasp...
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: Tank
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2013, 07:25:45 AM »
The whole setup is retarded. Hate the sights. Cant zoom them in. Me having diabetes and bad eyes i cant see watermelon through them now. If its not broken, DO NOT fix it.
a lot of us geezers have failing eyesight. i've found myself having to wear reading glasses on top of contacts, the 24 inch monitor just isn't big enough anymore. i'll have to break down and get bifocals and/or a bigger monitor.

looking at one of these right now...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005396&Tpk=UltraWide%20LED%20Backlight%20LCD%20Monitor&IsVirtualParent=1
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: Tank
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 08:37:18 AM »
I prefer the new setup, but some tankers want Manual transmission and i'm all for letting people choose what they want.

Also if manual transmission allows me to put a T-34 in low gear and have it actually climb a small hill, then im +100 because our auto T-34 couldnt climb a 10 degree hill if its life depended on it.
JG 52

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: Tank
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 11:39:30 AM »
So you guys wanting the previous system back want an arcade game???    :bhead

When the new system was put in to place some major upgrades and improvements were instantly noticed by me:  First, the tank commander concept is awesome.  The coaxial and hull MG's are now linked, the driver is "commanded" by the TC (from the TC's position), and there is now no need for HTC to waste hours and hours on modeling the internals of the gv's since the "unbuttoned" TC is the default position.  Also, I'm not sure why people think the manual transmission was better, I find the auto is much preferred.  Instead of hammering the "shift up/shift down" key, the same amount of time is can be devoted to holding down a throttle key when with the same results. It isn't rocket science.  As far as T34's not being able to climb a hill, ever think that may be historically accurate as well?  Ever check the gear ratios on a T34?  There is a reason it can go 35 MPH and have only 3 gears, it is not geared for low end power or torque.  The world is a big place, understand that there may be things going on that you have no understanding of.   ;)

In terms of tank sights, I think HTC went light years in the right direction in giving each tank their HISTORICALLY ACCURATE sights. Kudos to them for doing so.  Giving a T34x the same ranging abilities as a German tank was an insult. Not only did HTC give the Germans their due in terms of the mili-radian sights, they gave the optics a crisp and clear sight picture.  Likewise, they gave all the other countries their due as well.  Each tank had a different main gun, different tank sights, and in the case of the Germans they stood far above the rest of the world with their quality optics.  A T34x should not be able to stand at 2400 yards and trade shot for shot with a Panther, not only in the case of the main gun but more so in the case of sights and optics.

If you  :cry  want to play an arcade game I think World of Tanks is still going.  Go check them out.       

Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline 715

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1835
Re: Tank
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 02:23:41 PM »
Also if manual transmission allows me to put a T-34 in low gear and have it actually climb a small hill, then im +100 because our auto T-34 couldnt climb a 10 degree hill if its life depended on it.

That was a bug and was actually fixed in a patch quite awhile ago.  It's even mentioned in that version patch notes.

And SmokinLoon: both T34s have 4 gears, not 3.

I also vote for a choice of the previous control method (but not for a return to the old sights- the new ones are prototypically accurate).  Despite what some people say the auto transmission does not optimize uphill speed and the gear hunting is just annoying.  The part I really hate about the new setup though (which I fully admit apparently no one else hates, or even notices) is the steering.  The old system had positive steering.  The new system is an underdamped auto heading feedback loop.  You choose to slew to a desired heading and then center the stick.  The feedback loop then oscillates about approximately that heading.  For example: see a tree coming up?  Steer to the left.  OK, I'm going to clear the tree so center the stick.  Oops.. it's slewing back right again towards the tree.  Guess I have to turn again.  I've looked at videos of several real tanks maneuvering, even in mud.  None of them do this.  They turn to a heading and stay there.

Offline Zacherof

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
Re: Tank
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 05:56:11 PM »
I thought that was just me. I'm always crying out for auto heading :pray
In game name Xacherof
USN Sea Bee
**ELITE**
I am a meat popsicle

Offline R 105

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Tank
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2013, 09:54:03 AM »
 I use to GV a lot but after the transmission change I just about stopped tanking at all. That new transmission ruined the game for me because the tank will not move when you want it to. you can't creep forward with it and if you start up any sort of hill the tank stops and I get killed five time more now than before the automatic transmission. I want an option in the hangar for the old and correct manuals transmission. An automatic transmission is fine for a soccer Mom's mini van but a WWII tank needs a manual shift transmission.

Offline bc21

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 254
Re: Tank
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2013, 10:41:27 AM »
I use to GV a lot but after the transmission change I just about stopped tanking at all. That new transmission ruined the game for me because the tank will not move when you want it to. you can't creep forward with it and if you start up any sort of hill the tank stops and I get killed five time more now than before the automatic transmission. I want an option in the hangar for the old and correct manuals transmission. An automatic transmission is fine for a soccer Mom's mini van but a WWII tank needs a manual shift transmission.

 :aok +1

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: Tank
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 10:43:36 AM »
I use to GV a lot but after the transmission change I just about stopped tanking at all. That new transmission ruined the game for me because the tank will not move when you want it to. you can't creep forward with it and if you start up any sort of hill the tank stops and I get killed five time more now than before the automatic transmission. I want an option in the hangar for the old and correct manuals transmission. An automatic transmission is fine for a soccer Mom's mini van but a WWII tank needs a manual shift transmission.
AH doesn't model it as an automatic transmission.  It models it as having a driver who isn't you.  The driver may be a moron, but it is a moron driving a manual transmission.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: Tank
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2013, 04:45:33 PM »
The part I really hate about the new setup though (which I fully admit apparently no one else hates, or even notices) is the steering.  The old system had positive steering.  The new system is an underdamped auto heading feedback loop.  You choose to slew to a desired heading and then center the stick.  The feedback loop then oscillates about approximately that heading.  For example: see a tree coming up?  Steer to the left.  OK, I'm going to clear the tree so center the stick.  Oops.. it's slewing back right again towards the tree.  Guess I have to turn again.  I've looked at videos of several real tanks maneuvering, even in mud.  None of them do this.  They turn to a heading and stay there.
what you see in videos isn't as smooth as one would think. it took a lot of input and control by the driver. coordinating throttle and control input. what is done in ah is very close to the real life counterparts. not sure what's going on with your controls but, i use my rudder input and i can commit a small turn and recenter the controls without the tank slewing the opposite direction.

i know you've seen videos, here is an m4 sherman...watch what the turns closely...then fast forward to 1:35 and watch the steering controls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPTdxq_v7y8

watch how these panzers turn, pay close attention to the tracks...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib_9YCxesyM

interesting videos videos...restored german tanks being driven...again watch the tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY_5c0mBXok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGq6G-5ouA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCCCKiQWMRM
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline 715

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1835
Re: Tank
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 09:41:39 PM »
Thanks for the other videos, but I don't see them slewing back away from the drivers chosen heading, although those examples were traveling pretty slowly.  The T34-85 video I referenced was moving quite a bit faster, but it doesn't slew backwards either.  Also, I am aware of the complex process of turning a tank.  On the T34 the driver pulls back on the left or right stick which disengages a clutch on the left or right track.  Often that isn't enough to actually steer the tank and he has to pull back further on the stick to engage a brake on that track.  When he's going the correct heading he pushes forward on that stick which disengages the brake and re-engages the clutch so the track is powered again.

It happens to me whether I use my stick or just "A" or "D".  But, as I mentioned, essentially no one else even notices, so I'm not holding my breath for a fix ;) and I've just learned to live with it.  (Actually, I've learned to cheat the feedback loop by recentering the stick then giving it a bit of a bump.  The small correction resets the loop amplitude and it oscillates at a much lower amplitude.)