Opinions of the A8

[Mrkillu2]

From first impressions around 4-5 years ago when i first flew the thing.....i thought meh :| nothing to really be impressed with. But as of these past couple of months flying the A8 with Josh(in the correct way and not trying to ho everything has changed my perspective. Four words. It is a blast.

[SmokinLoon]

It is a great plane if it is kept fast and it is flown on it's own terms.  The 190A-8 has an amazing ability to retain E and catch many aircraft if it has the chance to convert that E in to equal or slightly greater speed than the target it is pouncing on.  Obviously, it has one of the most deadly gun packages in the game, few can take a burst of 30mm, 20mm, and 13mm and survive.  Heck, many fly the 190A-8 forgetting that it has the ability to take quad 20mm and therefore have a much more accurate and yet still very deadly monster on their hands. 

The 190A-8 has its hands tied in more than one way though, it simply can not turn at medium to low speeds and that coupled with a lackluster top speed (w/o WEP and E) equal a glaring disadvantage against more fighters.  There is a reason it is not a crutch plane like the P51D, La7, Spit16, or George (or even the F4Ux).  I like it, I use it to hunt bombers and it is also my #1 reserve plane to fall back to if no ords are available.  If ords are available I take the 190F-8. 

[qcarech]

she's more of a slash/snapshot b-n-z fighter. (in fighter mode, it rocks as a ground atteck platform too) ull' want alt on ur enemys if possible, if goin long distances burn 20-30% of ur aft an forward tanks on takeoff then goto ur dt. then when ur at alt an rdy to fight an ditch ur tank ur not as hvy from havin full internal tanks. keep ur speed up, take a shot at a trgt then extend an if poss climb. to keep ur E an get some alt back. try to never get intoa turn fight, esp. to the right. an in a scissor, it seems to on give u 1, 2 if ur lucky, chances to get a shot off, (w/ most planes). u wanna use ur rollrate to try to get the overshoot w/ enemy on ur 6, sometimes it works, other times....tower. but not many options if being chased by a pony or spit etc. its a ok buff hunter, an as far as whether to use 4x20mm's or 2x20mm's w/ 2x30mm's in fighter mode (ull want the 30mm's buff huntin) but going after fighters, ive found after usin it daily an have for yrs, both rock. since most of ur shots r gonna be snapshots, w/ next to no time to debate what ur gonna do, its seems more of a "what works for ur preference in gun conv's for fast snapshots" than a "hey, can someone tell me how to set my guns" hopin that others pref's will make it to where u kill like they do.  this is all imo an what it seems to me from flyin it alot, im no know-it-all. but if ur on the knight side in the late war areana, most of the time early evenig central time, we wing inthe A8 alot an be happy to have ya fly along w/ us. we do both attack and fighter runs.
<<S>> hope this helps some, like i said, im no expert, but do have quite some time in the A8
cya in the skies an goodluck
Qcarech

[Debrody]

4 words:
i cant fly it.

[Tank-Ace]

I've had moments in the plane where I'm untouchable, and others where I couldn't kill a 110 missing half its wing.

If you ask me, a lot of it depends on the weight at which you engage targets. If you're carrying 75% and a DT, and drop the tank to engage targets, you're not going to fight nearly so well as if you had been carrying 100%, a bomb, and engaged on RTB.


Also, the scissors don't work quite as well, since you just can't turn at even medium speeds. Effectively, all you're doing is a variation on a rolling defense, which can still be usefull. You'll find yourself using the roll as a tool to adjust your lift vector for a shot far more than as a tool to attain a shot. Still, don't be afraid to use the roll offensively and defensively, just be cognizant of the plane's limits.



Fight vertically, since it still retains some of the 190s' good climb rate when light(ish), and has high mass (and thus higher kinetic energy to convert into potential energy). The guns are also well suited to BnZ fighting, since they're not as accurate but very damaging, and you'll be firing against a larger target.


Finally, if the fight starts to go sour, the most intelligent tactical move you can make would be to run when you see a chance. It just can't fight an uphill battle; its a great plane, just not for that specific job.

[Debrody]

question, Jager:
if you have the starting speed of 300mph, which one will go higher "straight up", a brewster/109E/Spit1 or a 262/P38/Jug?
Or another, if you throw out a 10lbs stone and a beer bottle from the window, which one is going to hit the ground sooner?

[bozon]

question, Jager:
if you have the starting speed of 300mph, which one will go higher "straight up", a brewster/109E/Spit1 or a 262/P38/Jug?
Or another, if you throw out a 10lbs stone and a beer bottle from the window, which one is going to hit the ground sooner?

You got the question wrong - what matters is not "who", it is "by how much".

[Debrody]

Sir, then i got to answer that question for you.

The energy of the speed: E=m*v^2
The energy of the height: E=m*g*h
so
m*v^2=m*g*h
simpyfy with m
v^2=g*h
and thats how high the plane will go straight up, from the given speed. I have ignored the factor of the engine power though, a K-4 with full power will go a little bit higher than (lets say) a Boston, but with the prop only windmilling, they are all the same.
Its only simple physics 

[bozon]

Sir, then i got to answer that question for you.

The energy of the speed: E=m*v^2
The energy of the height: E=m*g*h
so
m*v^2=m*g*h
simpyfy with m
v^2=g*h
and thats how high the plane will go straight up, from the given speed. I have ignored the factor of the engine power though, a K-4 with full power will go a little bit higher than (lets say) a Boston, but with the prop only windmilling, they are all the same.
Its only simple physics 

First, you forgot the drag, which will affect who pulls ahead in the early stages of the zoom and becomes increasingly important to the final height as the initial speed increases.

Second, planes do zoom with power on and it makes a big difference. It actually makes a huge difference to how the zoom develops with time. What is better? to zoom 100 feet higher or to hang in there pointed upwards for 2 seconds more?

Third, kinetic energy is E=0.5*m*v^2

[Debrody]

-I did not forgot drag, but every single aircraft has drag, what isnt as high under 200mph that it would make any noticable difference.
-Every plane has an engine, and thrust me, even in a k4 vs brewster contest, what is about to be the most extreme matchup in AH, the difference would be under 200feet, from 300mph . What ist as much as im talking about around 5000feet. This will not save your life in a straight zoom climb as it would save you in a rope - but in the rope, the mass alone doesnt mean anything.
-There i made a mistake, but it doesnt really affect the outcome. The mass can be taken out from the equation in the same way.

If you dont belive me, test it. I did. Also, Jager's point was that the 190's higher mass might save it in a straight zoom climb - it wont. Fact.

[Latrobe]

I used to hate it every time I took it up. I thought it was just too slow, too heavy, and could not turn with a B17. Then something got me thinking of flying it again. I had remembered I hated flying the A8 so much but I thought "What the heck, 8th times the charm." So far, 8th time has been the charm! I am really enjoying it whenever I take it up! If you don't weigh the plane down with all the unnecessary ammo with the extra 20's or 30's, keep it as light as you can, then the A8 is quite a lethal dogfighter!

I see the A5 and A8 as the 190 versions of the 109G2 and G6. Do you want a quicker and more nimble version? Or, do you want to sacrifice some of that quickness and maneuverability for better guns?

[bozon]

-I did not forgot drag, but every single aircraft has drag, what isnt as high under 200mph that it would make any noticable difference.
-Every plane has an engine, and thrust me, even in a k4 vs brewster contest, what is about to be the most extreme matchup in AH, the difference would be under 200feet, from 300mph . What ist as much as im talking about around 5000feet. This will not save your life in a straight zoom climb as it would save you in a rope - but in the rope, the mass alone doesnt mean anything.
-There i made a mistake, but it doesnt really affect the outcome. The mass can be taken out from the equation in the same way.

If you dont belive me, test it. I did. Also, Jager's point was that the 190's higher mass might save it in a straight zoom climb - it wont. Fact.

That was exactly my point when I said that the question was "by how much" and not "who" zooms higher - the difference is small. I was under the impression that you were claiming otherwise - read you wrong.

There is a difference in how the planes behave in the zoom, especially near the apex. Light planes with a decent power loading will zoom about as high, but will spend a longer time in the final stages of the zoom. Heavier planes (or the same plane with more internal weight) will reach the apex quicker (though not much higher if at all) and start to fall back when the light plane is still clawing for his last few feet. From the POV of the heavier plane, he sees the zeke/N1K/whatever still pointed up and closing the distance / out-zooming him, while in practice the light plane is almost suspended and it is the heavy plane that is falling back.

Stall recovery also makes a difference because in some planes you can really ride them up till they start falling tail-forward, while others will enter a nasty spin if you try that.

[Debrody]

Ahhh roger that, my fail 
It actually shukes when i cant write down exactly what i think 

[save]

Difference with 2*30mm and quad 20mm's is that 30mm kills buffs with snapshots, but with  quad 20mm you need 'time on target', 90% of my b24/b17 buff kills are high or low 11-1 o'clock attacks, only a few good gunners can smoke your engine from high/low HO. against Lancs you go under them and kill them pulling up out of reach from rear gunner. Its much harder to kill B24s/b17s with HO in one go with twin 20mm's.

I find 20mms better against fighter targets, since you can carry many more outer guns of the 20mms than the 30mms,when your 60 or so 30mms are gone you only carry dead weight.
Why we don't have the ability to  shoot only with 30mm is beyond me. IRL they could.

On the defensive Only 51's and la7 can follow you at 600mph+ dives (I don't know about Tempests, so I'm not sure about them).
La7, can really do everything an A8 can do except losing speed fast, fortunately most la7 drivers are inexperienced enough to overshoot/ lose vis in you in a rolling scissor.

I never ever take the drop tank, reducing RPM / throttle is enough to get you where you want it to (not long escort), and drop tanks mounting slow you down by some mph enough to be equal instead of outdistance ki84 and spit16 after a short dive, and Wep has longer time in the A8.
DT/bomb mount makes A8 more stable, but i want the plane to be unstable enough to do the last resort defensive move, max sudden pull-up at 250-300 Mph while reducing throttle to idle, and plane suddenly stop flying, and plane automagically do a half-roll losing 100-150mph and 50 to 100 feet of altitude, countered after with rudder/full throttle.

A8 can be very good combo with a fast turning plane like the Mosquito.
Either the A8 catch the Con in a dive, and hte Mossie finish them turning, or the Mossie slow them down and the A8 snapshot them.

[TomD]

I see the A5 and A8 as the 190 versions of the 109G2 and G6. Do you want a quicker and more nimble version? Or, do you want to sacrifice some of that quickness and maneuverability for better guns?

I could not agree more. To that end I would choose the A5. It seems to me that whether they are 30's or 50's, door knockers are still just that, door knockers. I fly a G2 some 95% of the time
and, until just recently, seal the deal with a single 20mm. It seems the only times I use the mg's are in attempt to cause a fleeing aircraft to change course so that I may have a chance to cut
his turn and catch up. But, as I'm sure you know, few will take the bait. Here recently however, I have been making use of the gun pods with mixed success and mixed emotions. Which begs the
question.. As a fellow 109 driver and enthusiast, how do you feel about taking the gun pods? Seeing as how you have in excess of 160 kills in an f4, and what history would confirm, I guess I
should already know the answer.. But had to ask. 

PS. It's not my intention to hijack or derail this thread. So, if you care to divulge you could simply pm me.