Author Topic: A26 Invader anyone???  (Read 9982 times)

Offline Eric19

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2013, 02:29:39 PM »
maybe for a short time Semp, until people realize it's just another bomber with a bunch of guns and it can be shot down fairly easily. it's a good bet the a-26c (glass nose) won't be the first model out the door unless hitech and gang are feeling overly generous. probably the first 3-6 months there will be a lot of a-26 missions getting posted every 5 minutes and after a few waves get wiped out by defenders flying 20-30mm equipped fighters, it will get old.

yer wrong just saying
the A26 would be the premier tank buster next to the A20 and IL2 it would see A LOT of use in the MA the only difference between the A20 and A26 is bombload the A26 has a better bombload and can fire 5in HVAR rockets
its got about the same topspeed as an a20 at 355 its certainly not going to be an easy aircraft to shoot down if the pilot knows his aircraft
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2013, 02:39:40 PM »
you must be flying on different maps than i do...i see more jugs, hogs, ponies and lancs dropping eggs on tanks than i have a20s or b26s...the only person who can fly the a20 as well as you're talking about, is cobia and he doesn't do it with a full bomb load.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2013, 02:40:42 PM »
U.S. and British plane sets are quite robust. I'd like to see the Invader added .... after:
















« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 02:42:15 PM by Arlo »

Offline gyrene81

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2013, 02:43:44 PM »
damn, Arlo brought pictures...


you know you want one Arlo...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 02:50:34 PM by gyrene81 »
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 02:46:15 PM »
damn, Arlo brought pictures...

Admit it. They made ya pitch camp.  ;)

Offline guncrasher

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 02:55:15 PM »
Admit it. They made ya pitch camp.  ;)

yeah but the ords payload is very small.  there's fighters that can carry more ords than 1/2 the bombers you want added.  most of those buffs are slow as hell too.  heck if I want to fly a slow bomber I'll take the lancaster, at least it can carry some ords and has unlimited defensive ammo.

if you want to take bombers that are slow and easy to kill and carry a smaller payload than the most used bombers in here then take a storch.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2013, 02:56:53 PM »
yeah but the ords payload is very small.  there's fighters that can carry more ords than 1/2 the bombers you want added.  most of those buffs are slow as hell too.  heck if I want to fly a slow bomber I'll take the lancaster, at least it can carry some ords and has unlimited defensive ammo.

if you want to take bombers that are slow and easy to kill and carry a smaller payload than the most used bombers in here then take a storch.

semp

Ah, the LWMA argument. That pie's baked. It's variety time.  :D

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2013, 03:54:31 PM »
U.S. and British plane sets are quite robust. I'd like to see the Invader added .... after:

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Great list!!!  Though I'd substitute the SB-3 for the Pe-2.  The Soviets needs something worthy of being a level bomber and the Pe-2 did not excel at level bombing, it did more direct support/shallow dive bombing than anything.  Otherwise, I'd like to see the Wellington added to that picture list.   :aok 
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Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2013, 04:49:44 PM »
Petlyakov TB-7/Pe-8 may be the better option



Though the write-up is kinda depressing (eh, good Russian drama)

The Petlyakov Pe-8 was a Soviet heavy bomber designed before World War II, and the only four-engine bomber the USSR built during the war. Produced in limited numbers, it was used to bomb Berlin in August 1941. It was also used for so-called 'morale raids' designed to raise the spirit of the Soviet people by exposing Axis vulnerabilities. Its primary mission, however, was to attack German airfields, rail yards and other rear-area facilities at night, although one was used to fly the People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs (Foreign Minister) Vyacheslav Molotov from Moscow to the United States in 1942.

Originally designated the TB-7, the aircraft was renamed the Pe-8 after its primary designer, Vladimir Petlyakov, died in a plane crash in 1942. Supply problems complicated the aircraft's production and the Pe-8s also had engine problems. As Soviet morale boosters, they were also high-value targets for the Luftwaffe's fighter pilots. The loss rate of these aircraft, whether from mechanical failure, friendly fire, or combat, doubled between 1942 and 1944.

By the end of the war, most of the surviving aircraft had been withdrawn from combat units. After the war, some were modified as transports for important officials, and a few others were used in various Soviet testing programs. Some supported the Soviet Arctic operations until the late 1950s.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/profiles/p19473-petlyakov-pe-8.html









Wartime operational history

When Operation Barbarossa began on 22 June 1941, only the 2nd Squadron of the 14th Heavy Bomber Regiment (Russian: Tyazholy Bombardirovochnyy Avia Polk—TBAP), based at Boryspil[16] was equipped with Pe-8s, but was not ready for combat.[17][18] Two of its nine Pe-8s were destroyed by German air strikes shortly after the war began, before the Pe-8s were withdrawn out of reach in Kazan. Stalin ordered that the squadron be reformed into a regiment, and that it strike targets deep inside German territory. Theoretically, this tactic would boost Soviet morale by demonstrating the vulnerability of the enemy. The squadron was re-designated on 29 June as the 412th TBAP and began training for long-range missions.[16] On or about 27 July it was again renamed, this time as the 432nd TBAP.[19] On the evening of 10 August, eight M-40-engined Pe-8s of the 432nd TBAP, accompanied by Yermolaev Yer-2s of the 420th Long-Range Bomber Aviation Regiment (DBAP), attempted to bomb Berlin from Pushkino Airfield near Leningrad. One heavily loaded Pe-8 crashed immediately upon take off, after it lost an engine. Only four managed to reach Berlin, or its outskirts, and of those, only two returned to their base. The others landed elsewhere or crash-landed in Finland and Estonia. The aircraft of the commander of the 81st Long-Range Bomber Division, Combrig Mikhail Vodopianov, to which both regiments belonged, was attacked mistakenly by Polikarpov I-16s from Soviet Naval Aviation over the Baltic Sea and lost an engine; later, before he could reach Berlin, German flak punctured a fuel tank. He crash-landed his aircraft in southern Estonia.[20] Five more Pe-8s were lost during the operation, largely due to the unreliability of the M-40s.[21] Seven Pe-8s were lost during the month of August alone, rendering the regiment ineffective. During this period, the surviving aircraft were re-equipped with AM-35As, which gave them a shorter range, but a more reliable engine.[22]

By 1 October 1941, the regiment mustered fourteen Pe-8s after having been replenished by new aircraft from the factory.[17] It spent the rest of the year conducting night raids on Berlin, Königsberg, Danzig and as well as German-occupied cities in the Soviet Union. The regiment was re-designated as the 746th Separate Long-Range Aviation Regiment (Russian: Otdel'nyy Avia Polk Dahl'nevo Deystviya—OAPDD) on 3 December.[19] No aircraft were reported on hand two days later after this designation, but eleven were on strength on 18 March 1942.[17] During the winter of 1941–42, the regiment was assigned the destruction of a railroad bridge over the Volga River, near Kalinin. In April 1942, one aircraft flew diplomatic personnel and mail on a non-stop flight from Moscow to Great Britain.[22] This was a test run for a flight carrying Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov and his delegation from Moscow to London and then to Washington, D.C. and back, for negotiations to open a second front against Nazi Germany (19 May–13 June 1942). The flight crossed German-controlled airspace on the return trip without incident.[23] From August 1941 to May 1942, the regiment flew 226 sorties and dropped 606 tonnes (596 long tons; 668 short tons) of bombs. In the course of these missions, they lost 14 bombers, five in combat, and the rest from engine malfunction. The regiment received 17 Pe-8s as replacements.[22] Sixteen aircraft were on hand on 1 May 1942, but the number had only increased to seventeen two months later; the regiment was losing aircraft almost as fast as they were being replaced.[17]

The 890th Long-Range Aviation Regiment (Russian: Avia Polk Dahl'nevo Deystviya—APDD) was formed on 15 June 1942[24] and both regiments were used to bomb German-held transportation centers of, among others, Orel, Bryansk, Kursk and Poltava. The pace of activity increased and the regiments flew as many missions in August as they had in the first ten months of the war.[25] By the eve of the Soviet counterattack at Stalingrad, Operation Uranus, on 8 November the regiments had fourteen Pe-8s on hand.[17] Under the command of the 45th Long-Range Bomber Aviation Division (Russian: Dal'nebombardirovochnaya Aviatsionnaya Diviziya—DBAD), they did not participate in the Stalingrad air attacks.[26]

In 1943, from the division's primary airfield at Kratovo, southeast of Moscow, the regiments bombed transportation centers, airfields and troop concentrations. The railroad yard at Gomel was a favorite target and the regiment dropped approximately 606 tonnes (596 long tons; 668 short tons) of bombs there between February and September 1943. It is not clear if these sorties were made by Pe-8s alone or in combination with other aircraft. In addition, the regiment dropped the first FAB-5000 bomb on Königsberg in April 1943, continuing the pin-salamander attacks against targets deep in the German rear.[25] In May 1943, efforts shifted to disrupt the German concentration of forces for the Battle of Kursk. In one sortie, the 109 bombers of the 45th DBAD struck the rail junction at Orsha during the evening of 4 May, most of which were not Pe-8s; the German High Command reported the destruction of 300 rail wagons and three ammunition trains.[27]

By 1 July, the regiment had 18 Pe-8s for deployment during the early phase of the Battle of Kursk. The long-range aviation units continued to attack targets in the German rear areas at night, supporting the Soviet ground offensive in the Orel Bulge, called Operation Kutuzov, that began on 12 July. The Germans had transferred the nightfighters of the Fourth Group of Nightfighter Wing 5 (IV./Nachtjagdgeschwader 5), flying a mix of Junkers Ju 88 and Dornier Do 217 aircraft, to counter the Soviet raids near the Orel area. Initially, the night fighters were ineffective against the Soviet raids, until the deployment of their ground radar "eyes". Once the Germans had use of their radar, after the night of 17–18 July, Soviet losses skyrocketed. Although the Germans flew only fourteen sorties that night, they claimed eight kills. On the night of 20–21 July, Captain (Hauptmann) Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein, commander of IV./NJG 5,[28] shot down three himself.[17] The exhaust plume of the ASh-82 engine may have been a contributing factor; the engines lacked flame dampening exhausts, making their plume visible from a distance.[25] Despite its losses, the 746th was re-designated as the 25th Long-Range Guards Aviation Regiment (GAPDD) on 18 September 1943 in recognition of its achievements.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petlyakov_Pe-8
















Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2013, 05:00:37 PM »

Offline Devonai

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2013, 05:54:48 PM »
The New England Air Museum in my town recently got an A-26.  It is pretty cool to look at, at least.  Those twin dorsal and ventral remote turrets are awesome.  I love living three miles from a huge air museum.   :D

http://www.neam.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=929
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2013, 06:49:29 PM »
arlo what makes the pe8 a better alternative?  the low number built?  the low ords carried? the slower speed? the few sorties it flew?

the pe is just a footnote, if that.  the a26 had a bigger contribution to the war effort than most of the so called bombers that you want added to the list of hangar queens.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2013, 06:55:45 PM »
arlo what makes the pe8 a better alternative?  the low number built?  the low ords carried? the slower speed? the few sorties it flew?

the pe is just a footnote, if that.  the a26 had a bigger contribution to the war effort than most of the so called bombers that you want added to the list of hangar queens.

semp

Think outside the LWMA box and look at event balancing. As I mentioned earlier, the LWMA is a baked pie, friend.
It's time to foster events ..... then ask for overkill.  :D



Oh .. and the Pe-8 carried 11k Lbs to the Invader's 6, btw.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 07:01:46 PM by Arlo »

Offline guncrasher

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »
Think outside the LWMA box and look at event balancing. As I mentioned earlier, the LWMA is a baked pie, friend.
It's time to foster events ..... then ask for overkill.  :D

perhaps think that lwma pays for aces high.   




semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Arlo

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Re: A26 Invader anyone???
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2013, 07:03:07 PM »
perhaps think that lwma pays for aces high.  

semp

And the LWMA's gonna quit in droves because it didn't get the 'vader? Yes, LWMA
profit pays for event development. Much the same main arena paid for events in AW.  :D