Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High

[Butcher]

The Japanese were much larger participants and much more potent adversaries than were the Italians.  That isn't saying that Italy wasn't there, but we have a larger percentage of Italian aircraft that participated in WWII than we do Japanese or Russian aircraft.  Italian industrial output was just a joke when compared to even recently medieval Japan's, let alone the UK's or Germany's.  The USSR and, above all, the USA just dwarf the others.

Would more Italian aircraft be nice?  Of course, but that is true of any aircraft.  The fact is that the addition of the C.200 and SM.79-II (and perhaps the Re.2002) would bring the Italian planeset up to as fully representative as even the American planeset is now.

The list is a little longer then C.200 and SM.79, add G.55, Re.2005 and Re.2002 and P.108 - all served in combat in strength. I agree with what you are getting at, some others need to be added, however there are very FEW aircrafts left that served in multiple theaters, which leaves every aircraft
added besides the beaufighter to be pretty much a set finisher.

I'd much rather see more Russian aircraft and Japanese, however I'm not sure how well HTC is on getting data for these planes, I have a hard time finding russian/japanese data myself which might be a reason - maybe not I dont know.

[alpini13]

and why not the SM-82 kangaroo......it was both a bomber and a transport for paratroopers....it would give the axis a transport and italy a bomber with an 8800lbs bomb load.

[Arlo]

Gyrene mentioned the Italian Air Force being supplemented by some German aircraft
(and rightly so). More could be said for the Soviets, in this regard. While I'm all for
a Soviet medium bomber being added, they certainly had the following in numbers:

Curtiss P-40 ................... 2,097    
Bell P-39 Airacobra .......... 4,746    
Bell P-63 Kingcobra .......... 2,400    
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt ... 195    
B-25 Mitchell ..................... 862    
Douglas A-20 Boston ........ 2,908    
Curtiss Toma/Kittyhawks ..... 270
Hawker Hurricane ............. 2,952
Spitfire Mk V ...................... 143
Spitfire Mk IX ................... 1,188

All of which saw significant action, all of which, along with modeled Soviet
equipment, make for a lot of accurate event modeling.

The Japanese plane set has gaps, certainly, but not to the extent that
much of what saw action in most of the Pacific theater of operations
cannot be portrayed in Aces High.

The German and British plane sets are robust. I don't think anyone can
successfully argue against that.

[Karnak]

With all due respect, I challenge that claim. 

How many different models of combat warplanes did Italy produce?

Italy, based on Wikipedia:

BR.20
Ca.135
C.200
C.202
C.205
CR.42
G.50
G.55
P.108
Re.2000
Re.2001
Re.2002
Re.2005
SM.79-II
SM.80
SM.81
Z.1007

That seems to about cover it, and it includes some very low production units.  So, 11.76% of "significant" Italian airframes.

Japan, based on Karnak's memory:

A5M2
A6M2
A6M2-N
A6M3
A6M5
A6M
B5N2
B6N
B7A
D3A1
D3A2
D4Y1
D4Y2
G3M
G4M1
G4M2
H6K
H8K
J1N1-S
J2M2
J2M3
J2M5
Ki-21
Ki-27
Ki-43-I
Ki-43-II
Ki-43-III
Ki-44-II
Ki-45
Ki-46
Ki-48
Ki-49
Ki-51
Ki-61-I-Ko
Ki-61-I-Otsu
Ki-61-I-Tei
Ki-61-II
Ki-67
Ki-84-I-Ko
Ki-84-I-Otsu
Ki-100
Ki-102
N1K1
N1K1-J
N1K2-J
P1Y1

23.91% of significant Japanese airframes.  So you're right, we do have a larger percentage of Japanese aircraft.  Add three Italian birds and we'd be where I claimed we were.

[Arlo]

Savoia-Marchetti SM.82



The Savoia-Marchetti SM.82 was an Italian bomber and transport aircraft of World War II. It was a cantilever, mid-wing monoplane trimotor with a retractable, tailwheel undercarriage. About 400 were built, the first entering service in 1940, but although able to operate as a bomber with a maximum bombload of up to 8,818 lb (4000 kg), the SM.82 saw very limited use in this role.[1]

Post-war about 30 SM.82s continued in service with the Aeronautica Militare Italliana, many remaining in service until the early 1960s.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.82

    Capacity: 40 troops

Performance

    Maximum speed: 347 km/h (187 kn, 212 mph)
    Cruise speed: 250 km/h (135 kn, 125 mph) at 3,000 m (9,840 ft)
    Stall speed: 110 km/h (59 kn, 68 mph)
    Range: 2,100 km (1,134 nmi, 1,864 mi)
    Service ceiling: 6,000 m (19,685 ft)

Armament

    1 × 12.7 mm (.5 in) Scotti machine gun in dorsal turret
    3 × 7.7 mm (.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns in ventral and lateral positions
    4,000 kg (8,818 lb) bombload

[Karnak]

I didn't include Japanese transports either.  That was intentional as we both know none of either will ever be added.  The only transport that might yet be added is the Ju52.

[Arlo]

I didn't include Japanese transports either.  That was intentional as we both know none of either will ever be added.  The only transport that might yet be added is the Ju52.

You're counting overall airframes but ... how much of that is needed to do much more
than add anything other than the Battle or the Philippine Sea, the Russo-Japanese war
and a possible B-29 interceptor or two for events?

Now ... two Italian fighters and the German Luftwaffe portray the Italian/Sicilian
campaign.

[Karnak]

You're counting overall airframes but ... how much of that is needed to do much more
than add anything other than the Battle or the Philippine Sea, the Russo-Japanese war
and a possible B-29 interceptor or two for events?

Now ... two Italian fighters and the German Luftwaffe portray the Italian/Sicilian
campaign.

Yup, but that hits both.  We obviously don't need all of either and many wouldn't be used for fun.  I can hack whole swaths of aircraft from both.

This would be, for me, a satisfactorily complete Italian planeset:

C.200
C.202
C.205
CR.42
G.55
Re.2002
SM.79-II

[MK-84]

Yup, but that hits both.  We obviously don't need all of either and many wouldn't be used for fun.  I can hack whole swaths of aircraft from both.

This would be, for me, a satisfactorily complete Italian planeset:

C.200
C.202
C.205
CR.42
G.55
Re.2002
SM.79-II

That only excludes the Re.2005 from the OP's wish.  Yes then?
On another note, why do all these wished turn into the (unstated) "requirements" or what is "most needed" argument.  What is wrong with the idea of a new plane might be more fun than another?  I do not hear that much, and that seems strange to me.

[gyrene81]

On another note, why do all these wished turn into the (unstated) "requirements" or what is "most needed" argument.  What is wrong with the idea of a new plane might be more fun than another?  I do not hear that much, and that seems strange to me.

just give it some time, ack ack and krusty haven't chimed in yet...

[Arlo]

Yup, but that hits both.  We obviously don't need all of either and many wouldn't be used for fun.  I can hack whole swaths of aircraft from both.

This would be, for me, a satisfactorily complete Italian planeset:

C.200
C.202
C.205
CR.42
G.55
Re.2002
SM.79-II

I could settle for that. I was, though, pandering to the uber is better
crowd, yaknow. That does seem the latest trend and may still accomplish
the job. Same could be said for support of a beefed up Japanese planeset.
There may be more overall support for a barely used late Japanese ride
then adding, say, the Claude (which I, personally, think would be a great
addition for AVG events alone).  

[Arlo]

That only excludes the Re.2005 from the OP's wish.  Yes then?
On another note, why do all these wished turn into the (unstated) "requirements" or what is "most needed" argument.  What is wrong with the idea of a new plane might be more fun than another?  I do not hear that much, and that seems strange to me.

Probably because the 'most fun' planes are already in the game?
Then again - 'most fun' is subjective. Some players like super-fighters
and super-buffs. Some like the challenge of something less so. Some
like not only participating in events but designing them and if you've
participated in those forums it becomes painfully obvious how many
players have issues with subbing other aircraft for the ones that actually
participated in the battle being portrayed.

So ... I'm confident in saying that every wish being made is being done
with fun in mind (whether it's likely to produce the desire is another
thing, entirely). 

[Karnak]

That only excludes the Re.2005 from the OP's wish.

Excludes the P.108 as well.  Adds the CR.42, C.200 and the Re.2002.

[TwinBoom]

-1 for Re2005

Re.2002 was an attack plane, by the way.  245 built per wikipedia.

How many TA-152's were built again and what type of aircraft was it? 

[Karnak]

How many TA-152's were built again and what type of aircraft was it? 

How does that bear on anything?  I posted my opinion, not a hard fact.  The Ta152 reused much of the graphic model of the Fw190D-9 whereas the Re.2005 would require its own 3D model.  I am not going to throw a tantrum if HTC decides to add the Re.2005 like some do every time they add an Allied aircraft, but that doesn't mean I have to endorse it.