Author Topic: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High  (Read 2369 times)

Offline Arlo

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Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« on: June 01, 2013, 03:37:20 PM »
Though there is apparently an ongoing campaign to fortify the Japanese plane set
(7 fighters - variants included - 2 bombers and 2 attack planes 'weak') if there's
one national plane set that's anorexic and in need of a transfusion it would be the
Italian one (2 whole fighters, baby).  :D

Yes, Italy was in this war. More-so than some may be willing to acknowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Italy_during_World_War_II

As such, I may recommend a bomber (or two) another fighter (or two).

[Regrettably, Italy didn't build attack planes that wouldn't incur the wrath
of the 'what a waste of time to model' crowd  ;)]

That, in itself, would comprise enough additions for possibly two updates and a
significant change to the overall historical mix/options for Aces High. It would
be a major 'event' offering. The African, Sicilian and Italian campaigns would
get some new toys.

Fiat G.55



The Fiat G.55 Centauro (Italian: "Centaur") was a single-engine single-seat World War II fighter aircraft used by the Regia Aeronautica and the A.N.R. (Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana) in 1943-1945. It was designed and built in Turin by Fiat. The Fiat G.55 was probably the best type produced in Italy during World War II,[2] (a subjective claim also frequently made for the Macchi C.205 Veltro) but it did not enter production until 1943.[3]

During its short operational service, mostly under the Repubblica Sociale Italiana insignia, after the 8 September 1943 armistice, this powerful, robust and fast aircraft proved itself to be an excellent interceptor at high altitude. In 1944, over Northern Italy, the Centauro clashed with British Supermarine Spitfire, P-51 Mustang, P-47 Thunderbolt and P-38 Lightning, proving to be no easy adversary. [4] Italian fighter pilots liked their Centauro but by the time the war ended, fewer than 300 had been built*.[2] (This is in comparison with, for example, the 34,000 Bf 109s built by the Germans.)

*Bear in mind that the new trend of wants no longer concerns itself with production - Arlo  ;)

General characteristics

Performance

    Maximum speed: 623 km/h (337 kn, 387 mph (417 mph with WEP)) at 7,000 m (22,970 ft)
    Range: 1,200 km, or 1,650 km with two 100 l (26 US Gal) drop tanks under wings (545 nmi, 627 mi (or 891 nmi, 1,025 mi with drop tanks ))
    Service ceiling: 12,750 m (41,830 ft)
    Rate of climb: 5 min 50 sec at 6,000 m (Dimensione Cielo, Caccia Assalto 3 Edizioni Bizzarri, Roma 1972, pag. 15) ()
    Wing loading: 154.0 kg/m² (34.15 lb/ft²)
    Power/mass: 0.308 kW/kg (0.190 hp/lb)
    Climb to 7,000 m (22,970 ft): 8.57 min

Armament

G.55 Serie 0:

    1 × 20 mm Mauser MG 151/20 cannon, engine-mounted (250 rounds)
    4 × 12.7 mm (.5 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns, two in the upper engine cowling, two in the lower cowling/wing roots (300 rpg)

G.55 Serie I:

    3 × 20 mm MG 151/20s, one engine-mounted (250 rounds) and two wing-mounted (200 rpg)
    2 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns in the upper engine cowling (300 rpg)
    Provision for 2 × 160 kg (353 lb) bombs on underwing racks (N.B. Egyptian and Syrian aircraft used Machine guns in the wings instead of cannon)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55



Reggiane Re.2005



The Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario (English: Archer, Sagittarius) was an Italian monoplane fighter/fighter-bomber produced for the Regia Aeronautica during the later years of World War II. It is considered by many to be "the most beautiful plane of the Second World War".[2] Along with the Macchi C.202/C.205 and Fiat G.55, the Reggiane Re.2005 was one of the three Serie 5 Italian fighters. The well balanced lines of the fuselage were aerodynamically perfect, and everything was designed to get the most out of the famous Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine.[3] The only drawback was a certain structural weakness in the rear section of the fuselage.[3] Only 48 examples had been delivered before the Armistice and these fighters took part in the defence of Naples, Rome and Sicily with the final survivors battling above the crumbling ruins of Berlin, with German insignia*[see above - Arlo].[4] Well-respected ace and military observer, Group Captain Duncan Smith, DSO DFC, stated: "The Re.2005 was altogether a superb, potent aeroplane."[5]

Performance

    Never exceed speed: 980 km/h (609 mph)
    Maximum speed:
        628 km/h (390 mph) at 6,950 m (22,800 ft)[16]
    Cruise speed: 515 km/h (320 mph)
    Stall speed: 155 km/h (96 mph) ()
    Range: 980 km (610 mi) on internal fuel (1,130 km (700 mi) w/ 300 L drop tank; 1,270 km (790 mi) w/ 300 L + 2 × 150 L drop tanks)
    Service ceiling: 11,500 m (37,700 ft) ()
    Rate of climb: 20 m/s (3,900 ft/min) (6,000 m in 6.5 min)
    Wing loading: max. 177 kg/m² (36.25 lb/sq ft) ()

Armament

    Guns:
        2 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns in upper cowling (350rpm);
        1 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon firing through propeller hub (150rpm);
        2 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon in wings (200rpm)
    Bombs:
        Underfuselage (non standard) hardpoint 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bomb or 1 × 300 L (79.3 US gal) drop tank
        Hardpoints on wings: 160 kilograms (350 lb) bombs or 2 × 150 litres (39.6 US gal) drop tanks



Of course, you know what's next:

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79



The Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Italian for "Sparrowhawk") was a three-engined Italian medium bomber with a wood-and-metal structure. Originally designed as a fast passenger aircraft, this low-wing monoplane, in the years 1937–39, set 26 world records that qualified it for some time as the fastest medium bomber in the world.[1] It first saw action during the Spanish Civil War and flew on all fronts in which Italy was involved during World War II.[2] It became famous and achieved many successes as a torpedo bomber in the Mediterranean theater.[3] The SM.79 was an outstanding aircraft and was certainly the best-known Italian aeroplane of World War II.[2] It was easily recognizable due to its distinctive fuselage dorsal "hump", and was well liked by its crews who nicknamed it Gobbo Maledetto ("damned hunchback").[4] It was the most widely produced Italian bomber of World War II, with some 1,300 built, remaining in Italian service until 1952.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.79

General characteristics

Performance

    Maximum speed: 460 km/h (286 mph) at 3,790 m (12,450 ft)
    Range: 2,600 km (1,615 mi)
    Service ceiling: 7,500 m (24,600 ft)
    Rate of climb: 5.3 m/s (1,050 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 165 kg/m² (33.8 lb/ft²)
    Power/mass: 0.173 kW/kg (0.106 hp/lb)

Armament

    Guns: ** 1 × 20 mm (0.79 in) forward MG 151 cannon
        1 × 12.7 mm (0.5 in) dorsal Breda-SAFAT machine gun
        2 × 7.7 mm (0.303 in) machine guns in lateral "waist-gun" ports (optional)
    Bombs: 1,200 kg (2,645 lb) internal bomb load or two external 450 millimetres (17.72 in) torpedoes



Piaggio P.108



The Piaggio P.108 Bombardiere was an Italian four-engine heavy bomber and the only one of its type to see service by Italy during World War II.[1] The prototype first flew in 1939 and it entered service in 1941.[1] It was one of a handful of Italian combat aircraft that could match the best manufactured by the Allies.[2] Four versions of the P.108 were designed, but only one, the P.108B bomber, was produced in any quantity before the armistice. The other variants included the P.108A anti-shipping aircraft with a 102 mm (4 in) gun, the P.108C, an airliner with an extended wingspan and re-modelled fuselage capable of carrying 32 passengers, and the P.108T transport version designed specifically for military use. Only one P.108A and 24 P.108Bs were built. The combined total number of all versions (and prototypes) is 35* [see above - Arlo].[1] Most of the P.108Cs were subsequently modified for use as military transport aircraft and could accommodate up to 60 passengers.[3] Nine P.108 Ts were used by Luftwaffe transport units until the end of the war.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.108

General characteristics

Performance

    Maximum speed: 430 km/h (267 mph)
    Range: 3,520 km (2,187 mi)
    Service ceiling: 8,500 m (27,187 ft)

Armament

    5 × 12.7 mm (.5 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns
    2 × 7.7 mm (.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns
    3,500 kg (7,700 lb) of bombs

« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 04:28:22 PM by Arlo »

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2013, 03:50:43 PM »
pssst...yo Arlo...look here

just sayin...
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 03:53:45 PM »
pssst...yo Arlo...look here

just sayin...


Shhh ... I was in a hurry ... look again.  :D

Offline Butcher

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2013, 03:55:34 PM »
+3 I love the italian birds, their tanks and infantry might of been crap, but later in the war they did produce some ferraris of aircraft.
JG 52

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 04:04:06 PM »
lol, good catch sir...now i'm going to predict a couple of wet panties coming in with tampons blazing, and shooting down the re2005 even though it would be a very nice addition to the plane set.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Karnak

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 04:07:05 PM »
+1 for G.55
+10 for SM.79-II
-1 for Re2005
-9000 for P.108

+5 for C.200.


Re.2002 was an attack plane, by the way.  245 built per wikipedia.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 04:08:17 PM »
Well, I used to be part of the 'weren't enough made' and 'not a significant plane' crowd but,
as of late, I see a turning away from that (as in individuals I thought were like minded) and
I figured, what the heck. And the more what the heck I thought, the more I thought 'why's
the Italian plane set just flat out being ignored while others are campaigning for Japanese
planes that are needed (not saying they aren't but ... the patient in the next bed is
almost dead).  :)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 04:10:49 PM »
whoops ... I'm reading too fast too.

Reggiane Re.2002



The Reggiane Re.2002 Ariete was an Italian fighter-bomber developed during World War II. The aircraft was a further development of the Re.2000, with some of the modifications that already had been introduced in the Re.2001. The aircraft was mainly used by the Regia Aeronautica (Royal [Italian] Air Force), but it also saw limited use with the German Luftwaffe, who used it against the French resistance.

The Re.2002 project began with the conversion of the Re.2000 to Regia Aeronautica specifications including a redesigned wing and conventional fuel tanks. A contract for a single conversion resulted in the Reggiane company using this as the basis of a new aircraft. The Re.2002 was designed by Roberto Longhi and Antonio Alessio, who took a modified and strengthened Re.2000 fuselage, mated to Re.2001 wings and a more powerful radial engine, the Piaggio P.XIX R.C.45 Turbine (1,175 hp).[2] The decision to go back to radial engines was partly made due to the difficulty in obtaining German made Daimler-Benz DB 601 engines and Longhi's preference for radial engines.

The first prototype flew in October 1940, approximately three months after the Re.2001. The evaluation period showed some reliability problems with the Piaggio engine and therefore the aircraft served primarily as an attack aircraft instead, as it could carry a considerable payload, by Italian standards.
Operational history

In September 1941, the Italian Air Force ordered 200 aircraft, delivery of which began in March 1942. The aircraft equipped the 5° Stormo and 50° Stormo, although the engine problems hadn't been fully solved. The first batch of 100 aircraft were delivered by July 1943, but only part of the second batch was delivered before the armistice with the Allies.[2]

The squadrons equipped with Re.2002s saw a great deal of action with the Allied landings in Sicily although they also suffered many losses. During the first four days, when the Italian Air Force tried to attack allied ships, 14 aircraft were destroyed by British Spitfire Mk Vs. Allied bombing raids and strafing of airfields destroyed many aircraft on the ground. Due to the lack of fuel, the Re.2002s were only used sporadically, often equipped with three 250 kg or 100 kg bombs.

Some of the last skirmishes took place on September 3, 1943, when the British 8th Army landed at Calabria. Fifteen Re.2002s from 5° Stormo attacked the landing force. Three pilots were killed; among them was Giuseppe Cenni, the commander of the unit.
A Reggiane Re 2002 at Taliedo in early 1945, bearing German markings in preparation for delivery to a German Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppe.

The Germans had shown interest in buying 300 Re.2002s before the Armistice. They planned to use the German produced BMW 801 radial engine in order to eliminate the deficiencies with the Piaggio engine. However, Reggiane could not satisfy the demand, and none were delivered. However, some 40 "factory-fresh" Re.2002s along with 20 aircraft requisitioned from operational stocks were taken over by the Germans after the Italian armistice, and used against the French resistance.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggiane_Re.2002

« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 04:17:13 PM by Arlo »

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 04:14:06 PM »
interesting read on the re2005... http://hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/aircraft/re2005/index.html

considering the ta152 and the me163, shouldn't matter how many re2005s were put into service, they saw combat in squadron strength...
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Karnak

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 04:14:10 PM »
The Japanese were much larger participants and much more potent adversaries than were the Italians.  That isn't saying that Italy wasn't there, but we have a larger percentage of Italian aircraft that participated in WWII than we do Japanese or Russian aircraft.  Italian industrial output was just a joke when compared to even recently medieval Japan's, let alone the UK's or Germany's.  The USSR and, above all, the USA just dwarf the others.

Would more Italian aircraft be nice?  Of course, but that is true of any aircraft.  The fact is that the addition of the C.200 and SM.79-II (and perhaps the Re.2002) would bring the Italian planeset up to as fully representative as even the American planeset is now.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 04:18:38 PM »
... but we have a larger percentage of Italian aircraft that participated in WWII than we do Japanese or Russian aircraft.

With all due respect, I challenge that claim.  :)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 04:19:47 PM »
interesting read on the re2005... http://hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/aircraft/re2005/index.html

considering the ta152 and the me163, shouldn't matter how many re2005s were put into service, they saw combat in squadron strength...

Excellent page.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 04:25:33 PM »
Would more Italian aircraft be nice?  Of course, but that is true of any aircraft.  The fact is that the addition of the C.200 and SM.79-II (and perhaps the Re.2002) would bring the Italian planeset up to as fully representative as even the American planeset is now.
are we talking pure italian made or are you including the german aircraft that were used by italians?

*edit* decent list of italian tanks and aircraft at the bottom of the page... http://www.historyofwar.org/country_italy.html
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 04:30:58 PM by gyrene81 »
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 04:29:50 PM »
are we talking pure italian made or are you including the german aircraft that were used by italians?

Pure Italian made. No need to model the Stuka and 109. Skins would be cool.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Italy - the red-headed step-child of Aces High
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 04:41:57 PM »
decent list of italian tanks and aircraft at the bottom of the page... http://www.historyofwar.org/country_italy.html

Nice. Thanks again!  :)