Author Topic: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?  (Read 2727 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 06:25:06 PM »
you're not getting it.

I have killed more b29's and strat bombers on montis than any other MA map and they were almost all 25-30k and i had no trouble destroying them without a 163.

I can't destroy them if they are not there.

there is no predator if there is no food supply.

you may still get stray b17 and b24s and lancs once in a while but not the flood it was. and certainly you won't get to shoot at waves of b29s. they won't hang 300-400 perks out to dry for 163s to shoot at very often.

 :rolleyes:

I understood your whine...err OP quite well the first time I read it.  I just find it funny that years ago, the fighter types were whining how they couldn't intercept the high flying bombers attacking the strats in time to stop the bombers.  That's why we got the Me 163 and why it's available at the closest field to the HQ.  Now the whines from the fighter types is that the Me 163 has killed off the fights.  Sometimes the things we wish for have a tendency to turn around and bite us on the arse.

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Offline Lusche

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2013, 06:33:13 PM »
I understood your whine...err OP quite well the first time I read it.  I just find it funny that years ago, the fighter types were whining how they couldn't intercept the high flying bombers attacking the strats in time to stop the bombers.  That's why we got the Me 163 and why it's available at the closest field to the HQ.  Now the whines from the fighter types is that the Me 163 has killed off the fights.  Sometimes the things we wish for have a tendency to turn around and bite us on the arse.


To be fair, both the population and the strats are totally different then and now. Very, very few players of today had already been there when the 163 was introduced 11 years ago. And we only have working strats in a single cluster near the ME 163 bases for a relatively short time as well. Years ago the only thing that the Komet did protect was the HQ (and ocasionally that last airbase the enemy needed for the victory under the old victory rules).
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Offline alpini13

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2013, 06:37:19 PM »
maybe we should have 163 disabled for periods of time...and during the time that they are disabled.......SMOKE AT THE STRATS TO OBSCURE THE TARGET......or lots of smoke frome strikes at the target.....remember pearl harbour in dec 1941....the japanese did not bomb the fuel supply there on purpose....the resoning being that all that fuel would create too much smoke,therby hindering the ability to bomb the ships ......for that matter,cv's should have the ability to create smoke to obscure themselves as in real life.

Offline bustr

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2013, 06:59:47 PM »
11 years ago we were all learning unintended consequences lessons. Hitech regularly warns us about our wishes these days. Back then and as now we only think about our wants in the moment, while believing the current game culture is static and normative. Small changes over time can have large domino effects to human choice of activity. It took time but, look at strats and bombers now.

Fester sees an imbalance that no one could have accounted for. It exists because we players and the game's creator are not static entities fixed in time. Our chaotic change dynamic is the best constant of this game. The bomber\strat relationship change could have gone the way of most good intentions. Instead it rooted in the minds of players and blossomed.

Fester's assertion has quantifiable merit. We all like combat, and pure slaughter will drive players to other activities or even other games. We have the ability to turn the lights back on with the HQ inside of 30 minutes. So the past need for available 163 next to the HQ is no longer the same issue. And Hitech has tweeked the game since subtly to keep countries from being as easily isolated as in the past. There is still a place for the 163 but, maybe now perked commiserate to the high value weapon it is like the 262. The recently unperked XIV along with the K4 can both reach 30k in time to perform interceptions without causing the player to tab out and watch YouTube pron for 30 minutes. They both require skill though to bag bombers at 20-30k.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2013, 07:25:53 PM »
If they'd just bring back the zone strat system;

There'd be more buffs, attack planes and GV's hitting strats.
There'd be more fighters and attack planes and GV's hitting the buffs, attack planes and GV's hitting the strats.
There'd be better strategic gameplay with the re-implementation of zone bases.
There'd be localized vs countrywide effect due to strat porkage.
The Skd, Calliope M4 and PT would have more things to do with their rockets.
M3's and goons would have more resupply options.
163's would still have an occasional target.

All those would be good things, the loss of which made the game much more boring.
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Offline SlipKnt

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2013, 07:28:03 PM »
I agree with Triton.  Bump up the perk cost 3 times what it is and I think problem solved.  You'd be more careful if you are worried about losing fighter perkies.  

When I up bombers to attack strats, I assume I won't be coming back, I am assuming I will be fighting my way in and my way out.  It is fun when you have a bunch of bombers and fighter escorts going in.  Epic like fights can develop.  

If it takes me a couple hours to get there, then I am probably afk doing other things anyways.  HA!

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Offline palef

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2013, 07:28:12 PM »
Good lord, constructive input. Flying a 163 used to be an exercise in energy management (in more ways than one) and setting up snapshots on bombers who were usually driven by skilled gunners. The lack of practice meant that 163s weren't quite as deadly as they seem to be now, and the higher skill set of the buff pile-its tended to ameliorate the 163's effects over the strats. Add to that the reluctance to burn perks when you manage to compress and shudder and shake your way into the ground like a 650mph dart/vibrator.

11 years later, many people have 1000s if not 10s of thousands of perks to burn. A dead 6 approach on a buff concentrating on lining up a target (just takes timing) by a 163 can net 3 kills in one slightly oblique pass, and along with a generally better understanding of the tater's ballistics means that things are weighted in the 163's direction over the target.

So, yes, maybe it is time to up the 163's perk cost, particularly in light of the ability of SPit XiVs, K4s, Ta152s, and P47Ds (once they get up there) to make meaningful inroads on buff formations heading for the strats.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 07:32:13 PM by palef »
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Offline Delirium

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2013, 07:38:10 PM »
Keep the Me163s... if you want to minimize the overall number that can up at one time, I can understand that. It is ridiculous to see 10+ Me163s all upping for one bomber vic. Perhaps limiting players to a certain number of sorties of 163s for each month?

However, removing an aircraft entirely because it interferes with your game-play is also ridiculous. It is akin to removing P51s because they run the 'turn fights' in AH.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2013, 07:43:56 PM »
11 years ago we were all learning unintended consequences lessons. Hitech regularly warns us about our wishes these days. Back then and as now we only think about our wants in the moment, while believing the current game culture is static and normative. Small changes over time can have large domino effects to human choice of activity. It took time but, look at strats and bombers now.

Fester sees an imbalance that no one could have accounted for. It exists because we players and the game's creator are not static entities fixed in time. Our chaotic change dynamic is the best constant of this game. The bomber\strat relationship change could have gone the way of most good intentions. Instead it rooted in the minds of players and blossomed.

Fester's assertion has quantifiable merit. We all like combat, and pure slaughter will drive players to other activities or even other games. We have the ability to turn the lights back on with the HQ inside of 30 minutes. So the past need for available 163 next to the HQ is no longer the same issue. And Hitech has tweeked the game since subtly to keep countries from being as easily isolated as in the past. There is still a place for the 163 but, maybe now perked commiserate to the high value weapon it is like the 262. The recently unperked XIV along with the K4 can both reach 30k in time to perform interceptions without causing the player to tab out and watch YouTube pron for 30 minutes. They both require skill though to bag bombers at 20-30k.

Bustr use heap many big words. Me no care about strats, only Dar. Me big pawn in game of...
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Offline bustr

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2013, 08:37:51 PM »
I hear google is a school boy's best friend in many ways.......
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Offline HawkerMKII

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2013, 09:15:53 PM »
Sounds like the OP just want an easy button.....seeing strat flash knows where bad guy is. Want to kill buffs go hunting. Keep the 163 right where it is. -1 to any change
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Offline bj229r

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2013, 06:22:40 AM »
The 163's swung the pendulum too far in the other direction
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Offline Lusche

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2013, 06:30:39 AM »
The 163's swung the pendulum too far in the other direction



If the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, it's not the 163's fault (or the introduction of the 163).

The 163 was introduced at a totally different gameplay situation 11 years ago, and it's the redesign of the strats (putting them into a single cluster and move them to the HQ area on small maps) that changed the context in which the Me 163 operates.
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Offline Tilt

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2013, 06:42:34 AM »
I would agree that buffing into an area easily accessed by 163's is basically no fun............

Assuming that 163's will not be removed...........

..................increase distance between HQ and Strat city such that only one (the HQ?) was easily covered by 163's

................. add a 163 hanger or rocket fuel dump  at 163 fields such that they could be disabled for periods in game play
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: HTC: come look at the Main arena and tell us whats different?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2013, 06:47:23 AM »
I would agree that buffing into an area easily accessed by 163's is basically no fun............

Assuming that 163's will not be removed...........

..................increase distance between HQ and Strat city such that only one (the HQ?) was easily covered by 163's

................. add a 163 hanger or rocket fuel dump  at 163 fields such that they could be disabled for periods in game play

Why don't you strat monkeys just organize a huge raid where all your country hops in various buffs and kills the hq - they cant shoot all of you down.

Once the HQ is dead you have a free time running on strats and further ruining the game for everyone else. Then you'll get your final victory when the opposing side logs off to play Nintendo instead of playing gimped.
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