P47N Wiki?

[Widewing]

I dunno why, but the M feels so much better then the N in handling. As most recall, they have the same engine as the D-40, however its the wep thats the difference.

I've never been able to fly the Jugs to its top performance, either escort or interception, for some reason it just always felt sluggish compared to a 38 or 51.

The D-40 has an R2800 B series engine, and the M has an R2800 C series engine. The C series was engineered for much higher boost than the earlier B series. However, field mods (not modeled in AH2) could boost either engine substantially. On test stands, the C series engine was tested at 90 in/hg (3,600 hp measured) and suffered no failures, beyond accelerated wear. Naturally, this does not represent actual use but only testing to find the limits. I does illustrate how stout the engine design was.

[Zacherof]

I dunno why, but the M feels so much better then the N in handling. As most recall, they have the same engine as the D-40, however its the wep thats the difference.

I've never been able to fly the Jugs to its top performance, either escort or interception, for some reason it just always felt sluggish compared to a 38 or 51.

Same here.  It all comes down to personal preferance

[bozon]

The D-40 has an R2800 B series engine, and the M has an R2800 C series engine. The C series was engineered for much higher boost than the earlier B series. However, field mods (not modeled in AH2) could boost either engine substantially. On test stands, the C series engine was tested at 90 in/hg (3,600 hp measured) and suffered no failures, beyond accelerated wear. Naturally, this does not represent actual use but only testing to find the limits. I does illustrate how stout the engine design was.

The 56FG regularily over boosted their R2800. Robert Johnson claimed that his razorback could pull in exccess of 70", making it close to the p47m. On a lighter and slicker razorback this would give insane performance to an early 1944 plane.

Not that I am asking for it to be modeled, but it gives some perspective to Robert's other claim that after they got the paddle blade prop he could out climb spitfires. The paddle blade alone adds about 400 fpm to the climb - 800 more horses can make a lot of difference.

This is why we need the P47-D23! Unleash the pure jugs, the razorbacks!

[-ammo-]

The 56FG regularily over boosted their R2800. Robert Johnson claimed that his razorback could pull in exccess of 70", making it close to the p47m. On a lighter and slicker razorback this would give insane performance to an early 1944 plane.

Not that I am asking for it to be modeled, but it gives some perspective to Robert's other claim that after they got the paddle blade prop he could out climb spitfires. The paddle blade alone adds about 400 fpm to the climb - 800 more horses can make a lot of difference.

This is why we need the P47-D23! Unleash the pure jugs, the razorbacks!

+1!

If HTC did model a D23,  would you give up the mossie?

[Karnak]

I highly doubt HTC would model the D-23 with 70" boost.  My bet is you'd get the same performance as the D-25 has in AH right now.

[-ammo-]

I highly doubt HTC would model the D-23 with 70" boost.  My bet is you'd get the same performance as the D-25 has in AH right now.

Likely true Karnak - but with a cleaner/lighter razorback airframe and a paddle blade prop.

[Tank-Ace]

Likely true Karnak - but with a cleaner/lighter razorback airframe and a paddle blade prop.

The D23 had a paddle prop, but the D25 didn't  ?

[earl1937]

The Wiki write up reads like all other P47s will take a backseat when the N came out.  I see the N in the MA now and then but it is a rare bird as compared to the other 47s.  Is this just an over optimistic view by the writer or has something changed in the modeling?  I know the real world reason for the N model was long range, high altitude bomber escort and AH is more of a low altitude game.  25% fuel and a drop tank does gets the bird fairly light for a heavy weight.

Don't get me wrong.  I like the N.  The only draw back to me is the slow climb which WEP makes that good but WEP is like money in the bank and needs to be used wisely.

Interesting plane that doesn't seem to live up to the wiki writeup.

My 2 cents worth! The 47M was designed for one thing and one thing only, high altitude escort duty for B-29's over Japan! Problem was, when the USAF discovered they could not bomb accurately from 30 to 35 thousand feet and ordered the 29's to go to lower altitudes from 15 to 20 thousand to stay under the Northern Jet stream over central Japan, the M then became in effective because of the lower altitude and escort duty was deligated to the P-51's for the balance of the war.
The 47N came about because the designers saw that the 47M wing, with additional gussets and spars in the wing, would be a great air to ground attack aircraft, which was needed after "D" day against the German tanks and GV's. That is why the N has a heavier empty weight than the M, the additional structural reinforcements to the wing! I guess that it was successful for the most part, but I think the 47D-40 series of aircraft was overall the best ground attack aircraft of the second world war.

[bozon]

I highly doubt HTC would model the D-23 with 70" boost.  My bet is you'd get the same performance as the D-25 has in AH right now.

Not what I was asking for - I want a stock razorback with a paddle blade prop.

The D23 had a paddle prop, but the D25 didn't  ?

Our D25 has it modeled. Our D11 hasn't got it - if it had, it would have climbed same or better than the D25, not significantly worse like it does now.

Shortly after the D11 (forgot which D number it was) the paddle blade prop became standard and all previous model D Jugs were retrofitted with it. Since HTC models only the production standard, our D11 does not have it even though for most of a typical D11 service it would have flown with one.

If HTC did model a D23,  would you give up the mossie?

I will never give up my silly balsa kite of death! It always was my favorite plane of all times.
But I do still fly Jugs quite often and would love to have a better furballing razorback.

[-ammo-]

Not what I was asking for - I want a stock razorback with a paddle blade prop.
Our D25 has it modeled. Our D11 hasn't got it - if it had, it would have climbed same or better than the D25, not significantly worse like it does now.

Shortly after the D11 (forgot which D number it was) the paddle blade prop became standard and all previous model D Jugs were retrofitted with it. Since HTC models only the production standard, our D11 does not have it even though for most of a typical D11 service it would have flown with one.
I will never give up my silly balsa kite of death! It always was my favorite plane of all times.
But I do still fly Jugs quite often and would love to have a better furballing razorback.

Exactly!  The AH D11 does not have the paddle blade prop, but the razorback airframe was lighter and cleaner. A D23 would be the jug to fly in the A2A role - alongside the P-47M.  At least for me it would

[Zacherof]

Wish they went through with the 47J 

[Widewing]

My 2 cents worth! The 47M was designed for one thing and one thing only, high altitude escort duty for B-29's over Japan! Problem was, when the USAF discovered they could not bomb accurately from 30 to 35 thousand feet and ordered the 29's to go to lower altitudes from 15 to 20 thousand to stay under the Northern Jet stream over central Japan, the M then became in effective because of the lower altitude and escort duty was deligated to the P-51's for the balance of the war.
The 47N came about because the designers saw that the 47M wing, with additional gussets and spars in the wing, would be a great air to ground attack aircraft, which was needed after "D" day against the German tanks and GV's. That is why the N has a heavier empty weight than the M, the additional structural reinforcements to the wing! I guess that it was successful for the most part, but I think the 47D-40 series of aircraft was overall the best ground attack aircraft of the second world war.

This is just about completely incorrect. The M was developed from a Republic test mule in 1943 for the C series engine. It was built specifically to chase down V-1s. The N was engineered specifically for the Pacific.

I can into this in more detail, but I suggest that you do some basic research on the web rather than me spending more time correcting your post.

[earl1937]

This is just about completely incorrect. The M was developed from a Republic test mule in 1943 for the C series engine. It was built specifically to chase down V-1s. The N was engineered specifically for the Pacific.

I can into this in more detail, but I suggest that you do some basic research on the web rather than me spending more time correcting your post.

My info comes from Republic design notes and mission goal of the M, Sir! As the war progressed, the wing on the M would not be large enough for the long flights to and from Japan, so there fore, they redesigned the wing, extending the fuselage and called it the N model. The M saw some service in the European theater, but because of ignition problems and other engine problems, never did carry out its goal of shooting down V bombs. It did get 15 kills, late in the war. The N did turn out to be a good aircraft for air to ground attack roles, but because of the additional weight over the M, never was a good, fighter aircraft.
This is, I guess, where you got your info:
Throughout the war, the P-47 would undergo constant development. A bubble canopy was added to increase backward visibility.[6] The final version of the P-47 would be the P-47N, a long-range version with longer wings and fuselage, and an increased fuel capacity. The P-47N was designed to escort B-29s on long missions to Japan for a planned invasion of the Japanese homeland that never came. Production of all versions ended in November 1945. By then, 15,660 P-47s had been built, making it the most produced U.S. fighter of the war. 1,816 would be the long range P-47N model. This model would continue to serve with Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard units until the mid-1950s.[7][8] Republic ranked 24th among United States corporations in the value of wartime production contracts.[9]
In late 43, it was common knowledge, or most experts felt, the U.S. would have to invade Japan and would need long range fighters to escort the bombers to Japan! Republic brass thought that there would be a large contract for this type of aircraft, hence the M was developed and as time and events occurred, it was decided to improve the M with the new wing and extend fuselage, hence the N was born. Trouble was the N was needed more in Europe against German tanks, there fore it was rushed in to production and was successful in that role.
A quote from the "Jug" Assn about the jug during WW2:Thunderbolt pilots claimed to have destroyed 86,000 railroad cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored fighting vehicles, and 68,000 trucks, all in Europe.
But to put a end to this long winded reply to your post, the Jug series of aircraft served in all theaters of operations thoughout the world, except Alaska.

[Widewing]

My info comes from Republic design notes and mission goal of the M, Sir! As the war progressed, the wing on the M would not be large enough for the long flights to and from Japan, so there fore, they redesigned the wing, extending the fuselage and called it the N model. The M saw some service in the European theater, but because of ignition problems and other engine problems, never did carry out its goal of shooting down V bombs. It did get 15 kills, late in the war. The N did turn out to be a good aircraft for air to ground attack roles, but because of the additional weight over the M, never was a good, fighter aircraft.
This is, I guess, where you got your info:

You're making some assumptions that are seriously flawed.

I don't get "info", I do research. I've poured though thousands of Republic documents, interviewed Republic managers and pilots. To my knowledge, I had the last recorded interview with Bob Johnson before his death. I had unfettered access to Warren Bodie's archive (Warren wrote the "bible" on the P-47) while I co-wrote with him in the middle to late 1990s.

The M was developed after the AAF approached Republic to build a fighter that could chase down the V-1s. In 1943, Republic had been testing a P-47C-5-RE fitted with a C series R2800. It had attained speeds in excess of 480 mph, and was fast enough at V-1 altitudes to chase them down. Thus, Republic merely rolled out the test mule and demonstrated its capability. The AAF then issued a contract and Republic converted three P-47D-27-RE aircraft into YP-47Ms (production P-47Ms were based upon the P-47D-30-RE). There was no XP-47M, as the test mule had already advanced the program beyond experimental. See below.


This was the unofficially designated, XP-47M test mule....

The XP-47N was the third YP-47M, fitted with 22" wing extensions (just outboard of the wing roots) that were designed to be fuel tanks. Note that early production run P-47N-1-REs were not originally fitted with the new rudder fillet. This was introduced about mid way through the 550 plane run with earlier -1 Jugs being retro-fitted in the field. Before the XP-47N was built, the XP-47K (test bed for the bubble canopy and cut down turtleback) was modified with the new wing inserts and flown extensively.

I could write about this ad nauseum... I suggest buying a copy of Bodie's "P-47 Thunderbolt; From Seversky to Victory, published by Warren's own Widewing Publications.
http://www.amazon.com/Republics-P-47-Thunderbolt-Seversky-Victory/dp/0962935913/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372470111&sr=1-1&keywords=P-47+Thunderbolt%3A+From+Seversky+to+Victory

[Hajo]

You're making some assumptions that are seriously flawed.

I don't get "info", I do research. I've poured though thousands of Republic documents, interviewed Republic managers and pilots. To my knowledge, I had the last recorded interview with Bob Johnson before his death. I had unfettered access to Warren Bodie's archive (Warren wrote the "bible" on the P-47) while I co-wrote with him in the middle to late 1990s.

The M was developed after the AAF approached Republic to build a fighter that could chase down the V-1s. In 1943, Republic had been testing a P-47C-5-RE fitted with a C series R2800. It had attained speeds in excess of 480 mph, and was fast enough at V-1 altitudes to chase them down. Thus, Republic merely rolled out the test mule and demonstrated its capability. The AAF then issued a contract and Republic converted three P-47D-27-RE aircraft into YP-47Ms (production P-47Ms were based upon the P-47D-30-RE). There was no XP-47M, as the test mule had already advanced the program beyond experimental. See below.

(Image removed from quote.)
This was the unofficially designated, XP-47M test mule....

I own the book.  The most comprehensive volume/library on the development of the P47.  It list production models, number of, dates etc.

Owning this book allows you to tell when and where the aircraft was made, how many were produced, with tail umbers.

One of the two best books written about singular American fighters.  The other also written by Bodie (and wing) on the 38.

I am also fortunate enough to own a first Edition of Thunderbolt written and autographed by Robt. S  Johnson and co authored by Martin Caidin

My most prized book.
The XP-47N was the third YP-47M, fitted with 22" wing extensions (just outboard of the wing roots) that were designed to be fuel tanks. Note that early production run P-47N-1-REs were not originally fitted with the new rudder fillet. This was introduced about mid way through the 550 plane run with earlier -1 Jugs being retro-fitted in the field. Before the XP-47N was built, the XP-47K (test bed for the bubble canopy and cut down turtleback) was modified with the new wing inserts and flown extensively.

I could write about this ad nauseum... I suggest buying a copy of Bodie's "P-47 Thunderbolt; From Seversky to Victory, published by Warren's own Widewing Publications.
http://www.amazon.com/Republics-P-47-Thunderbolt-Seversky-Victory/dp/0962935913/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372470111&sr=1-1&keywords=P-47+Thunderbolt%3A+From+Seversky+to+Victory