A "Busy" Wish

[earl1937]

that doesn't make any sense.  
 
how would knowing true heading help with an instrument approach in an emergency.. all the bearings on an instrument approach are magnetic, all headings given by atc are magnetic.

and also, I've never heard of an ipad or notebook with an ILS receiver (have seen handheld vhf's with VOR mode tho) --  maybe you mean GPS. Even so, those headings are magnetic also.

About 2 weeks ago, I saw a story on CNN, concerning a pilot flying what looked like a Beech single engine aircraft, who complete failure of electrical system and he was talking about an "ap" for his "Ipad, which he used to shoot the approach and land safely.


I am not sure, but I believe this is a photo of a Ipad or something, by which you can download instrument approach and navigational charts, On Jeppensen.com web site.

If you were, say, somewhere in California and had nothing but your magnetic  compass to give your direction and you were getting radar vectors for landing, say a ASR approach to Burbank, and he told you to fly 090, what heading would you line your compass on to fly that heading?

[guncrasher]

About 2 weeks ago, I saw a story on CNN, concerning a pilot flying what looked like a Beech single engine aircraft, who complete failure of electrical system and he was talking about an "ap" for his "Ipad, which he used to shoot the approach and land safely.

(Image removed from quote.)
I am not sure, but I believe this is a photo of a Ipad or something, by which you can download instrument approach and navigational charts, On Jeppensen.com web site.

If you were, say, somewhere in California and had nothing but your magnetic  compass to give your direction and you were getting radar vectors for landing, say a ASR approach to Burbank, and he told you to fly 090, what heading would you line your compass on to fly that heading?

well you can use google maps for the same thing using an android based phone also.

semp

[gyrene81]

If you were, say, somewhere in California and had nothing but your magnetic  compass to give your direction and you were getting radar vectors for landing, say a ASR approach to Burbank, and he told you to fly 090, what heading would you line your compass on to fly that heading?

if the dude in the tower is telling me to use a heading of 090 knowing that i have nothing but the compass to go by...he better mean the same heading that compass is giving me or there will be hell to pay if i survive the landing.

[kvuo75]

About 2 weeks ago, I saw a story on CNN, concerning a pilot flying what looked like a Beech single engine aircraft, who complete failure of electrical system and he was talking about an "ap" for his "Ipad, which he used to shoot the approach and land safely.

(Image removed from quote.)
I am not sure, but I believe this is a photo of a Ipad or something, by which you can download instrument approach and navigational charts, On Jeppensen.com web site.

If you were, say, somewhere in California and had nothing but your magnetic  compass to give your direction and you were getting radar vectors for landing, say a ASR approach to Burbank, and he told you to fly 090, what heading would you line your compass on to fly that heading?

090. atc gives magnetic headings.


as for the ipad / etc. sure you can shoot a non precision approach with gps in a pinch, but it isn't ILS.

[earl1937]

if the dude in the tower is telling me to use a heading of 090 knowing that i have nothing but the compass to go by...he better mean the same heading that compass is giving me or there will be hell to pay if i survive the landing.

Burbank has a 15 degree East variation, and lets assume when the A&P set your compass correction card on the local compass rose that it was "zero", then to fly a 090 heading, you would add 15 degrees to the desired track, i.e., 105 degrees to make a 090 magnetic track on the ground, which is what the controller is wanting you to do.

[earl1937]

090. atc gives magnetic headings.


as for the ipad / etc. sure you can shoot a non precision approach with gps in a pinch, but it isn't ILS.

An ASR is a non-precision approach procedure. It is a "Area Surveillance Radar", and the radar operator will give your headings and altitudes to fly as you approach for landing.

[kvuo75]

Burbank has a 15 degree East variation, and lets assume when the A&P set your compass correction card on the local compass rose that it was "zero", then to fly a 090 heading, you would add 15 degrees to the desired track, i.e., 105 degrees to make a 090 magnetic track on the ground, which is what the controller is wanting you to do.

you're getting things mixed up, I think.

the compass correction card is due to variations in the airplane/compass itself.  (steel parts, magnetic fields, etc) so yeah, you might have to make a correction but that's just for reading your own compass.

the 15 degrees of magnetic declination is already accounted for when atc tells you to fly 090. (they want you to point the plane at magnetic 090, not true 090)

[kvuo75]

An ASR is a non-precision approach procedure. It is a "Area Surveillance Radar", and the radar operator will give your headings and altitudes to fly as you approach for landing.

yeah I've read about it.. aka  "surveillance radar approach".. they are very rare as far as I know.. I think its more a military thing?

I was talking about how gps can pretty much replace any navaid in a vor /dme / ndb / loc / sdf  approach.

[Babalonian]

that doesn't make any sense. 
 
how would knowing true heading help with an instrument approach in an emergency.. all the bearings on an instrument approach are magnetic, all headings given by atc are magnetic.

and also, I've never heard of an ipad or notebook with an ILS receiver (have seen handheld vhf's with VOR mode tho) --  maybe you mean GPS. Even so, those headings are magnetic also.

Seriously?     Runway 16 with a variance of (for portland as given as an example) 16.2 degrees?

[kvuo75]

Seriously?     Runway 16 with a variance of (for protland as given as an example) 16.2 degrees?

the runway numbers are based roughly on the magnetic heading eg. 163.4 degrees = rwy 16.. and they change, because the north pole drifts.

that's how this thread started.

great example, seattle .  the runways run true north-south.  they are numbered 16/34, not 18/36


correction:

 the earth's magnetic field is moving, not just the north pole.

[earl1937]

you're getting things mixed up, I think.

the compass correction card is due to variations in the airplane/compass itself.  (steel parts, magnetic fields, etc) so yeah, you might have to make a correction but that's just for reading your own compass.

the 15 degrees of magnetic declination is already accounted for when atc tells you to fly 090. (they want you to point the plane at magnetic 090, not true 090)

The compass correction card is for the things which you mention, which are permanent installed on the aircraft. While the variation  is built into the navigational charts, you still have to apply the correction yourself in the cockpit, in order to fly the heading you were instructed to fly. After a career of 22,634, accident free flight hours, I kinda think I know what I am talking about.

[kvuo75]

The compass correction card is for the things which you mention, which are permanent installed on the aircraft. While the variation  is built into the navigational charts, you still have to apply the correction yourself in the cockpit, in order to fly the heading you were instructed to fly. After a career of 22,634, accident free flight hours, I kinda think I know what I am talking about.

with all due respect,

magnetic deviation is different than magnetic declination (variation).

I think you have confused the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_deviation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

[earl1937]

with all due respect,

magnetic deviation is different than magnetic declination (variation).

I think you have confused the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_deviation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

I understand the two and the difference, but not sure what you are questioning. If you are instructed to fly a 090 degree heading on your compass in the aircraft, at Burbank, you would have to fly a 105 degree heading on your compass. Easterly varaitions are added to the magnetic heading you are trying to fly East and Westerly varations are added to the heading when flying West Bound.

Magnetic deviation is the error induced in a compass by local magnetic fields, which must be allowed for, along with magnetic declination, if accurate bearings are to be calculated. There are no charts to my knowledge, which you can pull out and look at, which shows local magnetic field, except on sea going vessels!
The track on over the ground is all the radar operator sees, but it is up to the pilot to fly the correct magnetic heading, to produce that 090 degree track on the radar screen!

[kvuo75]

I understand the two and the difference, but not sure what you are questioning. If you are instructed to fly a 090 degree heading on your compass in the aircraft, at Burbank, you would have to fly a 105 degree heading on your compass.

that is wrong. unless your compass is actually 15 degrees off.

[icepac]

You surely won't be flying a precision approach with an app unless you have hardware interfaced that can "read" the ILS and other signals.

The amount of lawyering and the approval process of such hardware would be a huge undertaking so expect something as mentioned above to cost a few thousand dollars.

Also....I'm not so sure that you can't fool the gyroscope/acclerometer combo. in current devices by pulling Gs while in any position other than upright......which is how some pilots who can't read instruments are also fooled into thinking that they are upright in IMC when they are actually nowhere near upright.