Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)

[Scherf]

WEDNESDAY, 4 APRIL 1945

2 missions are flown. Mission 926: 1,431 bombers and 866 fighters are dispatched to hit airfields, a shipyard and a U-boat shipyard in Germany; they claim 30-4-30 Luftwaffe aircraft; 10 bombers and 4 fighters are lost. 1. 438 B-24s are sent to hit Parchim (33) and Perleberg (29) Airfields; 97 hit Wesendorf Airfield, the secondary; attacks are visual; they claim 6-4-6 aircraft; 6 B-24s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 76 damaged; 1 airman is KIA and 59 MIA. Escorting are 324 P-47s and P-51s; the P-47s claim 14-0-20 aircraft and the P-51s claim 9-0-3 aircraft; 1 P-47 and 3 P-51s are lost. 2. 443 B-17s are sent to hit Fassberg Airfield (149); secondary targets hit are Hoya (37) and Dedelsdorf (13) Airfields; targets of opportunity are Unterluss (39) and other (24); bombing is visual; 1 B-17 is lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 58 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 6 WIA and 4 MIA. The escort is 220 of 232 P-51s; 1 is lost. 3. 505 of 526 B-17s hit the Deutsche shipyard at Kiel using H2X radar; 2 others hit Eggebeck Airfield, a target of opportunity; 3 B-17s are lost and 50 damaged; 27 airmen are MIA. 208 of 223 P-51s without loss. 4. 22 of 24 B-17s fly a DISNEY mission attacking the Finkenwarder U-boat yard at Hamburg without loss. 5. 19 P-51s fly a scouting mission and claim 0-0-1 aircraft. 6. 25 P-51s escort 8 F-5s and 2 P-38s on photo and radar reconnaissance missions over Germany, claiming 1-0-0 aircraft. 7. 16 P-51s escort 1 OA-10 and 2 B-17s on air-sea-rescue patrols.

I wonder if those include claims on the ground? Sometimes that narrative separates air-to-air and air-to-ground, sometimes apparently not.

[GScholz]

Argh.... The 9th AF was in the ETO...

Like I said, my mistake. And my apologies.

As to when the P-47 ceased production.... The Last N models were delivered in December of 1945...

Production canceled in August at war's end. Last aircraft came off the production line in December.

As to the speed of the 109G-6/AS...

Performance of the Me 109 G with DB 605 AS.   
Test Report Nr. 109 20 L43
 Date 22.1.44
 Copy   4
 Dept. Flight Testing
 Group Performance

 
1.) Speed at sea level: 315 mph        
2.) Speed at FTH: 406 mph        
3.) Full throttle height: 27,231 ft.    

And this:
(Image removed from quote.)

Let me just repost that image of yours...


Quite right. 405 mph at Kampfleistung. At Notleistung its speed would be about 430 mph.

That chart shows 648 km/h at Kampfleistung. That's 408 mph.

That chart shows 690 km/h at Notleistung (MW50 Leistung). That's 428 mph.

That's performance similar to real-life K-4s. In AH we have the best possible version of most aircraft flying with closed radiators and polished, waxed surfaces. In real life you'd be hard pressed to find a 450 mph 109 anywhere.


Kampfleistung: Combat power/max continuous power (usually limited to 30 min).

Notleistung: Emergency power. Allowed duration varied between engine models.

[J.A.W.]

The ol' 109 - when updated & skilfully flown in a reasonable tactical situation - [& even against the best performing contemporary Allied planes], was still able to give a good account of itself.

 The`45 R.K. Ace-flown lightweight Erla-fettled 109 running C3 @ 1.98 ata?

& were ANY A2A claims made/established by P-38 units for Ta 152 or jet types?

[Widewing]

Like I said, my mistake. And my apologies.

Production canceled in August at war's end. Last aircraft came off the production line in December.

North American had P-51 contracts cancelled or significantly reduced too. All manufacturers suffered this. The war was over, fighter inventory was bloated.

[J.A.W.]

& the USAAF, like the RAF, only had eyes [& funds] for them new-fangled jets..

[GScholz]

The`45 R.K. Ace-flown lightweight Erla-fettled 109 running C3 @ 1.98 ata?

With C3 the DB 605DC produced 2000+ hp. We don't have that. However, the Allied rides don't have 145/150 octane fuel either.

[Widewing]

& were ANY A2A claims made/established by P-38 units for Ta 152 or jet types?

No.... Ta 152s were as rare as chicken teeth. P-38s claimed no 262s.

[J.A.W.]

The 2nd TAF Tempests of 122 Wing tasked with the air-superiority role did get into 'em..

Recording take downs & losses too, - to the armed ones,
including the He 162..

From Air Enthusiast/48 P.49,

"The last 122 Wing Tempest to be shot down was flown by F/O M Austin
from 486 Sqd. He was shot down by a Heinkel He 162 lightweight jet fighter."

 

[J.A.W.]

The 2nd TAF Tempests of 122 Wing tasked with the air-superiority role did get into 'em..

Recording take downs of every operational jet & the Ta 152.
But losses too, - to the armed ones,
including the He 162..

From Air Enthusiast/48 P.49,

"The last 122 Wing Tempest to be shot down was flown by F/O M Austin
from 486 Sqd. He was shot down by a Heinkel He 162 lightweight jet fighter."

 

Whoops, sorry, I cocked that one up a bit...

[Ardy123]

No.... Ta 152s were as rare as chicken teeth. P-38s claimed no 262s.

What are you talking about, there were what, 1 or 2 accounts of it ever appearing in combat!

[J.A.W.]

Here is the official RAF combat report, of the Tempest - Ta 152 shoot down..

The pilot mistook the Ta for a 109 [ he'd obviously never seen one either]
but the gun-camera film showed it to be a 152..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/486-shaw-14april45.jpg

[Brooke]

Critical altitude seems to be of greater importance in scenarios. From my experience flying 109's and the Ki-84 in scenarios, the problem we ALWAYS face is the allies being at least 3k above us, and are at their peak performance, or still on the lower part of their curve. Our 109's, however peak at 20k, and we're routinely operating at 30k, well above our critical altitude, and it shows.

I'm not sure about other events, but in scenarios that have 109's and 190's vs. high-alt bombers and escorts, we are usually at the same altitude as the allies or above them on 1st intercept (for 109's of any model and 190D's) as there is generally an alt cap, and we are at it.  Also, we are generally up near top speed, but the escorts aren't (as they are staying near bombers).  After 1st intercept, when people are all over the place and at various altitudes, then it depends.  Even if the enemy is at full speed, at high alt, once they to a 180 or even 90 degree turn, it bleeds off enough speed that they can't catch you for a very long time.

Ki-84's haven't been in scenarios all that much -- Operation Downfall and Philippine Phandango I think is all.  In Downfall, it was an axis rout of the allies, so I don't think that the Ki's had trouble there.  In Philippine Phandango, yes, axis planes were getting hit by allies with altitude on them, but I'm not sure if that was a result of alts given in orders or capabilities of planes.

[MiloMorai]

I wonder if those include claims on the ground? Sometimes that narrative separates air-to-air and air-to-ground, sometimes apparently not.

It doesn't matter as the Americans found 60+ German a/c while the Tempest found none. JAW is a little short on details for the  rest of the 2TAF.

[GScholz]

I'm not sure about other events, but in scenarios that have 109's and 190's vs. high-alt bombers and escorts, we are usually at the same altitude as the allies or above them on 1st intercept (for 109's of any model and 190D's) as there is generally an alt cap, and we are at it.  Also, we are generally up near top speed, but the escorts aren't (as they are staying near bombers).  After 1st intercept, when people are all over the place and at various altitudes, then it depends.  Even if the enemy is at full speed, at high alt, once they to a 180 or even 90 degree turn, it bleeds off enough speed that they can't catch you for a very long time.

Ki-84's haven't been in scenarios all that much -- Operation Downfall and Philippine Phandango I think is all.  In Downfall, it was an axis rout of the allies, so I don't think that the Ki's had trouble there.  In Philippine Phandango, yes, axis planes were getting hit by allies with altitude on them, but I'm not sure if that was a result of alts given in orders or capabilities of planes.

The problem is that the 109G-6 does 370 mph on WEP at 30k. A G-6/AS could cruise at 400 mph on MIL at that alt, and on WEP it would be a wee bit faster than a P-51D.

[Brooke]

The problem is that the 109G-6 does 370 mph on WEP at 30k. A G-6/AS could cruise at 400 mph on MIL at that alt, and on WEP it would be a wee bit faster than a P-51D.

I don't dispute that the AS is a faster version.  It's just that I find the G-2 and G-6 already decent vs. P-51's, and for late war, we use 109K's in the mix.

I like my G-6 just fine.







And my G-14.