Author Topic: My gift from the NRA  (Read 1063 times)

Offline kappa

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2013, 10:34:00 PM »

you wouldn't get paid as much if you weren't union, and depending on the job you might have to compete with better educated people for the job. union guarantees you got your job until you quit or do something serious to get fired over. non-union you could lose you job if your boss doesn't get laid by his wife, and there is nothing you can do about it. a union welder can earn $20-$30/hr while non union may earn $13-$26/hr for the same skills and experience.

Basically agree till that point.. This is the purest reason why unions have not lost their purpose..

My particular professional nitch in the workforce is on par pay wise with the industry non-union workers.. Some higher, some lower.. Being unionized does not afford me higher pay.. What it does afford me is protection from unjust management decisions.. In return our management has a unionized workforce that will not strike. We have yearly raises that usually reflect the increase in cost of living or changes in industry pay rates.. Overtime is awarded with extremely nice pay as it should be. After all, we work to live not live to work..

A fair balance can and should be achieved..

not even close. higher wages has a similar effect as higher fuel prices. higher wages means higher cost of manufacturing which in turn increases consumer cost and the average blue collar consumer doesn't make union wages.

You have to agree the reason outsourcing started was b/c corporations saw a higher net income potential? Outsourcing for a 'better' product was not the cause. I am simply making the point that in a hypothetical closed economy with a 100% unionized workforce the closed economy could still flourish..
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2013, 11:17:47 PM »


You have to agree the reason outsourcing started was b/c corporations saw a higher net income potential? Outsourcing for a 'better' product was not the cause. I am simply making the point that in a hypothetical closed economy with a 100% unionized workforce the closed economy could still flourish..


no it was money.  that's why companies' customer's reps are in india and not the united states like it used to be.  they laid off millions of employees because it came down to dollars and cents.

companies never try to make a point as a group when it comes to money.  if they did they it would be against the law.  remember the nfl when none of the teams signed up one of the best players a few years back?  they paid millions of dollars as it was easily proved that they conspired to restrict free agents.  just based on the fact that no team asked to sign up that specific player even though he was one of the best.

semp


semp



you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2013, 08:06:56 AM »
Basically agree till that point.. This is the purest reason why unions have not lost their purpose..

My particular professional nitch in the workforce is on par pay wise with the industry non-union workers.. Some higher, some lower.. Being unionized does not afford me higher pay.. What it does afford me is protection from unjust management decisions.. In return our management has a unionized workforce that will not strike. We have yearly raises that usually reflect the increase in cost of living or changes in industry pay rates.. Overtime is awarded with extremely nice pay as it should be. After all, we work to live not live to work..

A fair balance can and should be achieved..
are you getting double time for ot and triple for holidays, or something like that? if your base pay is in line with non-union then you're on one of 2 ends of the spectrum...high demand or very low demand. i know some power plant union workers that are making way more money than their non-union counterparts. it's a coal plant, not nuke. and the power plant corporation wants to increase their rates due to "increased operating costs and increasing demand". the truth is the union was able to negotiate a really nice pay increase for their members and the power plant can't make as much of a profit for the shareholders. if they kicked the union out, they could lower operating costs dramatically but that will never happen.

i suppose a fair balance could be achieved, but it's highly unlikely.


You have to agree the reason outsourcing started was b/c corporations saw a higher net income potential? Outsourcing for a 'better' product was not the cause. I am simply making the point that in a hypothetical closed economy with a 100% unionized workforce the closed economy could still flourish..
well, ya, increased profit was always the target. the justifications given to the public were along the lines of "in order to remain competitive and keep costs down...blah, blah, blah". the bottom line was many corporations were able to trim the fat in their middle management and the bulk of their bottom end workforce and get what they considered "adequately competent" employees for pennies on the dollar by shipping jobs overseas and profits soared for a while. now in some businesses they are finding out that those overseas employees are affecting their domestic sales. nobody wants to deal with "bob" who barely speaks intelligible english and lives in delhi. and the outsourcing did nothing to lower domestic prices.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline guncrasher

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2013, 08:46:10 AM »
are you getting double time for ot and triple for holidays, or something like that? if your base pay is in line with non-union then you're on one of 2 ends of the spectrum...high demand or very low demand. i know some power plant union workers that are making way more money than their non-union counterparts. it's a coal plant, not nuke. and the power plant corporation wants to increase their rates due to "increased operating costs and increasing demand". the truth is the union was able to negotiate a really nice pay increase for their members and the power plant can't make as much of a profit for the shareholders. if they kicked the union out, they could lower operating costs dramatically but that will never happen.

i suppose a fair balance could be achieved, but it's highly unlikely.

well, ya, increased profit was always the target. the justifications given to the public were along the lines of "in order to remain competitive and keep costs down...blah, blah, blah". the bottom line was many corporations were able to trim the fat in their middle management and the bulk of their bottom end workforce and get what they considered "adequately competent" employees for pennies on the dollar by shipping jobs overseas and profits soared for a while. now in some businesses they are finding out that those overseas employees are affecting their domestic sales. nobody wants to deal with "bob" who barely speaks intelligible english and lives in delhi. and the outsourcing did nothing to lower domestic prices.

I get paid 2 1/2times my normal wages if I work on any holiday.  if I work more than 32 hours in a week that has a holiday'  then my 4th (5th?) day it's over time pay at 1 1/2 times.  anything over that is also overtime. 

that is not due to regulations but most because our company pays it.  we have no union so far.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2013, 08:50:42 AM »
I get paid 2 1/2times my normal wages if I work on any holiday.  if I work more than 32 hours in a week that has a holiday'  then my 4th (5th?) day it's over time pay at 1 1/2 times.  anything over that is also overtime. 

that is not due to regulations but most because our company pays it.  we have no union so far.

semp
sounds like an awesome place to work. i'm salaried, they have my donut 24/7 365...and i have the electronic leash to prove it.  :lol
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline guncrasher

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2013, 03:29:16 PM »
sounds like an awesome place to work. i'm salaried, they have my donut 24/7 365...and i have the electronic leash to prove it.  :lol

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

I know the feeling.  I worked for transamerica insurance company as a manager from 1985 to 1998.  hated the calls on new years eve telling me not to get drunk because I was supposed to be at work next morning so we can do the financial reporting.  I could never take vacation from the 25 of the month to the 5 of next month.  so glad I am not working there anymore.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2013, 10:30:43 PM »
A little disappointed.



The tag says Made in China.


-ab

You cant buy a hat made in America anymore.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline kappa

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2013, 12:16:59 AM »
are you getting double time for ot and triple for holidays, or something like that? if your base pay is in line with non-union then you're on one of 2 ends of the spectrum...high demand or very low demand. i know some power plant union workers that are making way more money than their non-union counterparts. it's a coal plant, not nuke. and the power plant corporation wants to increase their rates due to "increased operating costs and increasing demand". the truth is the union was able to negotiate a really nice pay increase for their members and the power plant can't make as much of a profit for the shareholders. if they kicked the union out, they could lower operating costs dramatically but that will never happen.

i suppose a fair balance could be achieved, but it's highly unlikely.

You can't simply blame a unionized coal plant with higher operating cost on the union.. I understand it is easy to do.. The way Coal plants have operated is changing and not because of the workforce. Coal plants are now having to spend huge amounts of working capital in order to lower their emissions. Scrubber installation in order to clean the plant's effluent is rather expensive. This is happening all over the country. It comes down to clean the effluent, shutdown, or risk being sued by a state that the business might not even have a footprint in.. Not the unionized worker's fault..

The nations electrical grid is indeed seeing a rising demand and has for decades. A demand that will not go away unless the doomsday scenario happens.. As a rule of a free economy, end user's rates will go up. That is certainly not a unionized worker's fault.

As far as you know some union workers making far more than their non-union counterparts in a power house, that is very subjective based on word of mouth and personally I find it highly unlikely unless the difference is based on the cost of living from one area to another.. Power production entities typically have a area they provide with little direct competition. I could understand a plant worker in say California making more than a counterpart in Mississippi for example..

Perhaps you are correct about kicking out the union and lower operating cost.. But operating a power house involves more 'cost' than just the hourly salary of the workers.. Employee turnover can become expensive in a environment that the worker has to be trained to operate. Sure, some jobs you can hire anyone off the street for, but to operate in a safe cost effective manner, you want the folk that are pushing buttons and turning switches to understand what they are doing.. Anyone can close a main breaker to the grid but it takes a trained operator to know not to close the breaker 180deg out of phase costing the power house millions from just turning a switch.. How do you ensure a trained workforce and limit employee turnover? You pay them...

I don't know if you know I'm a operator at a nook plant or just happened on the subject.. It really doesn't matter.. A fair balance is not highly unlikely and my workforce is the proof.. We have different pay rates for OT.. 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x.. Our pay is based on the industry in our region. All part of our general agreement to work.. And we do work, very professionally I will add..
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Vulcan

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2013, 05:24:00 PM »
you're brave. the quality of chinese steel is lower than post war japanese. i've seen the effects of long term use on chinese made weapons, they're as disposble as everything else made in china.

Norinco's are fairly popular here, people treat em rough and never have any issues.

Also FWIW Remington rebadges russian Baikals for resale in the USA, and Howa (Japan) makes some of the Weatherby's.

Face it sonny, most of your nations production is outsourced offshore these days ;)

Oh and to rub salt in the wound... a lot of Savage rifles are made in Canada.

Offline Nefarious

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2013, 06:31:26 PM »
Norinco's are fairly popular here, people treat em rough and never have any issues.

They are popular here in the States too.

I think people take a negative outlook on the Chinese Mil-Surp here in the states because of internet tales and rumors and overall some kind of cautiousness and hatred towards Chinese goods. I have met people who won't touch my rifles because of their association with the Vietnam conflict.

Truth is, the Chinese built more SKS than any other country and I have yet to come across one yet that was made poorly. If anything, the wood of the Chinese stock is it's worse quality.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Vulcan

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2013, 05:00:31 PM »
I had a baikal singleshot in .243 (very cheap single shot rifle), was at the range one day happily plugging away sub inch groups @ 100m. Guy next to me was swearing and cursing, trying to sight in an expensive Sako. He couldn't believe my rifle was outperforming his for less 1/10th the cost :D

The only fault I could find with the baikal was as it heated up it would spread vertically (it had a shotgun style loading mechanism).

Offline Widewing

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2013, 07:20:41 PM »
You cant buy a hat made in America anymore.

Sure you can... All of my Stetsons are made in the USA....

If you really want top shelf, buy a hat here:
http://www.knudsenhats.com/index.html
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: My gift from the NRA
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2013, 12:16:36 AM »
Us Americans tend to be confused when it comes to trade. Way back in 1776 the Brits were forcing us to only trade with them. A big reason for the War of Independence was in fact the ability to trade with whom ever we wanted.

Fast forward to post-WW2 and we see the big problem. America dominated international trade. We should see that for what it was. We dominated because the rest of the industrialized world lay smoldering from thousands of bombs. America has historically thrived due to trade. It is our bread and butter.

boo
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