Airbus A 319 & Skydiving plane close call over Michigan

[colmbo]

In a very short time those 2 a/c would have covered 400 feet.


                                                                                                                                            Oz

400 feet of  vertical separation.  They were 1.6 nautical miles horizontal at the closest. 

[guncrasher]

years ago I was in a plane from new york to charlotte, nc.  my co worker used to get annoyed when I would tell him what the different noises on the airplane were, you know flaps, gear that was about all I could identify.  we were on a small jet with about 3 or 4 rows, I dont remember exactly.  think it was a 737 or 747.  all I remember the is the 7.

it was a cool normal flight when were on final approach I turned to my friend and I pointed out that the landing gear hadnt deployed yet.  we kept going lower and lower I was about to panic as I kept telling my friend the landing gear wasnt down.  we were really close to the ground when the airplane engines went to more power and we started climbing.  I told my friend again, no noise from the landing gear going up or down.

after a few minutes of climbing the pilot announced that there was another airplane on the runway and we had aborted landing.  I always called that bs as I pointed out to my friend that when we came around for another landing we could hear and fell he landing gear gong down.  it make a lot of noise in that airplane.

that was one of the few times I had actually been scared to fly.  the other was when an airplane crashed in Charlotte the night before I flew from Charlotte to los angeles.  the road we took to the airport passed right by the house that was destroyed by the airplane.


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[Golfer]

CLT has a large amount of controller training and they're not the best at moving airplanes.  I've done more go-arounds there than any other large hub airport.  3 in one month alone.  Nothing unusual there.

In a 737 and other airliners you may well not hear the landing gear come down especially if you're toward the back.  You weren't about to belly in.  I've noticed the same thing on SWA airplanes (all 737 fleet) and never thought to panic.

Your story is a great example of just how a first person account can be over sensationalized and turned into something it wasn't. I'm not saying you don't believe it, I'm just saying it didn't happen how you think.

[guncrasher]

CLT has a large amount of controller training and they're not the best at moving airplanes.  I've done more go-arounds there than any other large hub airport.  3 in one month alone.  Nothing unusual there.

In a 737 and other airliners you may well not hear the landing gear come down especially if you're toward the back.  You weren't about to belly in.  I've noticed the same thing on SWA airplanes (all 737 fleet) and never thought to panic.

Your story is a great example of just how a first person account can be over sensationalized and turned into something it wasn't. I'm not saying you don't believe it, I'm just saying it didn't happen how you think.

no I was on the wings.  and every time I would always listen to the landing gear come down.  you can hear it and feel it as it makes a lot of noise.


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[Golfer]

You don't have to hear the landing gear or any associated wind noise as it comes down.  Configuration and airspeed play a big part in this as it can be masked by light buffet, turbulence, ambient noise and other factors.  737s also don't have main landing gear doors which make a LOT of noise during gear extension with other airplanes.  The nose gear doors make a racket too but the noise associated reduces as airspeed is reduced as well.

There's no rule that says you have to hear the gear come down.  You didn't.  I've not heard it myself.

[guncrasher]

You don't have to hear the landing gear or any associated wind noise as it comes down.  Configuration and airspeed play a big part in this as it can be masked by light buffet, turbulence, ambient noise and other factors.  737s also don't have main landing gear doors which make a LOT of noise during gear extension with other airplanes.  The nose gear doors make a racket too but the noise associated reduces as airspeed is reduced as well.

There's no rule that says you have to hear the gear come down.  You didn't.  I've not heard it myself.

flown enough in airplanes to know that you can hear it and feel the landing gear come down.  I have yet to flown in an airplane where I dont feel it and hear it.  that was the only time.  and it wasnt just landing but I dont think the airplane went around with the landing gear down.




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[Golfer]

flown enough in airplanes to know that you can hear it and feel the landing gear come down.  I have yet to flown in an airplane where I dont feel it and hear it.  that was the only time.  and it wasnt just landing but I dont think the airplane went around with the landing gear down.




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You're the expert. 

[guncrasher]

You're the expert. 

I was there, you weren't.


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[800nate800]

hence the name "scarebus" watch out for fallling stabs!

[Vulcan]

Couple of things with as much flying as I do commercially...

A) I wear noise-cancelation head phones, either plugged into an iPod or just on alone, to drown out any crying children or panicked passengers. They are especially useful when flying in and around thunderstorms and a sudden drop in altitude is normal yet people get spooked easily.

B) I try to position myself by switching seats if possible, next to a chick with the biggest rack...the idea here is IF a plane ever begins to rapidly drop, decompress, I'm going out of this life as a groper.

One landing into Wellington I had was particularly rough, had this hot young sweetie next too me. She looked like an actress (theatrical not tv), grabbed my hand on the way in. She thanked me for being so cool on such a rough landing ... didn't tell her I was rapidly devising ways to take advantage of the situation 

[cpxxx]

Guncrasher and Golfer, there may be a simpler explanation. Forgetting to put the gear down is unlikely particularly in a multi crew airline environment. A more likely explanation is that the pilots were aware that the aircraft ahead may not clear the runway in time and expected a go around. ATC may well have warned them.  So they left the gear up. They would only have to retract it all again anyway. So they continued to the missed approach point and performed the go around. One less thing to do during that process.

An early go around might mess up the sequencing at the airport. Far better to fly the published approach.

Just a thought. We can never know unless we spoke to the aircrew.

[guncrasher]

Guncrasher and Golfer, there may be a simpler explanation. Forgetting to put the gear down is unlikely particularly in a multi crew airline environment. A more likely explanation is that the pilots were aware that the aircraft ahead may not clear the runway in time and expected a go around. ATC may well have warned them.  So they left the gear up. They would only have to retract it all again anyway. So they continued to the missed approach point and performed the go around. One less thing to do during that process.

An early go around might mess up the sequencing at the airport. Far better to fly the published approach.

Just a thought. We can never know unless we spoke to the aircrew.

that could be possible. we were pretty close to the ground, close enough to see the runway when looking down the window.  that is how close to the ground we were.  if I remember correctly the engines revved up about 2 seconds after we passed the beginning (or end, whatever) of the runway.  I guess we'll never know for sure.  we did try to read if there were any near misses reported but found none.


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