Author Topic: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling  (Read 1597 times)

Offline cbxsteve

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New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« on: July 06, 2013, 11:00:08 PM »
Apparently in the last patch, PT boats were saddled with a permanent sea state in the form of swells that change direction with the boat.  You are always riding up and down swells making gun aiming near impossible. In addition,the view is likely to quickly cause nausea in all but the most iron-stomached players.

To put it nicely, the sea state modeling is simplistic. If you go out in the ocean with a fast boat, there are almost always two directions you can steer to derive a smooth ride, and that would be transverse to the swell direction in the trough.  A boat with the speed of a PT, and with it's relatively short length, would have no problem achieving this in open ocean. (The point being that the helmsman could always stabilize the boat when under air attack).

HiTech. If we must keep the wave action, please pick a swell direction and model it more realistically.  The guns on PTs were about the only thing that made them worthwhile at all, and now it's nerfed.

And speaking of PT boats (and their uselessness), the 2 main variants of torpedoes with which they were equipped during the war had a run distance of 10,000 yards and 16,000 yards respectively. Do the torpedoes in the game have these ranges? Anybody know what it is?

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 01:15:55 AM »
There is a option to turn it off, but i understand your points and views.

Its a shame this doesn't apply to carriers too. I would love to land on a carrier that's bucking, people landing and taking off of carriers currently have it EASY, "way way stupid dumb its just a moving runway easy" reality is a carrier even at full stop would still move around in pitch and roll. Might not matter much on takeoff granted the planes in on the "ground" untill lift off. just wanna see some hard landings sometimes.


 :aok
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 01:19:47 AM »
There is a option to turn it off, but i understand your points and views.

Its a shame this doesn't apply to carriers too. I would love to land on a carrier that's bucking, people landing and taking off of carriers currently have it EASY, "way way stupid dumb its just a moving runway easy" reality is a carrier even at full stop would still move around in pitch and roll. Might not matter much on takeoff granted the planes in on the "ground" untill lift off. just wanna see some hard landings sometimes.


 :aok

+1 for this :aok
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Offline Brooke

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 02:36:24 AM »
There is a option to turn it off

Where is that?  I looked around but couldn't find it.

Offline Zacherof

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 02:54:59 AM »
Where is that?  I looked around but couldn't find it.
Skuzzy mentioned there was a flag option :headscratch:
But there may be a problem with it not being able to turn it off.
Inpersonally haven't had time to play with this ability
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Offline ImADot

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 09:45:03 AM »
Where is that?  I looked around but couldn't find it.

Arena Settings>General>Arena Flags
It cannot be changed by players except offline or in Custom Arenas.

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Offline Saxman

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 10:46:35 AM »
It cannot be changed by players except offline or in Custom Arenas.


Yeah, that would make this a MASSIVE exploit if it could be.

I do agree, while I like the idea of the ocean being something other than ground of a different color and slightly different physics properties, it'd be nice if there was some sort of consistent direction like the wind layers, rather than it being determined by the boat itself.

And I'd definitely love to see this applied to the Task Groups as well. ESPECIALLY if it helps mitigate the insane accuracy of the 5" guns and their late-war US prox fuses in AAA mode.
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Offline Widewing

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 11:15:28 AM »
There is a option to turn it off, but i understand your points and views.

Its a shame this doesn't apply to carriers too. I would love to land on a carrier that's bucking, people landing and taking off of carriers currently have it EASY, "way way stupid dumb its just a moving runway easy" reality is a carrier even at full stop would still move around in pitch and roll. Might not matter much on takeoff granted the planes in on the "ground" untill lift off. just wanna see some hard landings sometimes.


 :aok

In normal sea state, there is very little perception of rolling or pitching on a carrier. I've been aboard CVs with sea states from flat calm to 40 ft swells in 50 knot winds, taking green water over the bow.

What annoys me is that absolute lack of lateral tire adhesion. It's as if you were taking off or taxiing on a frozen lake. I have taxied on real carrier deck when the ship was turning into the wind, and the only sense of turning was the horizon changing. No sliding, no tendency to "understeer" counter to ship movement. This is one of the most unrealistic facets of carrier ops in Aces High.

I understand the ability to roll backwards into the wires. This simulates deck handlers pushing the aircraft back. However, there is no "Island Burble", the turbulence caused by air flow around the ship's superstructure. This can cause a notable wobble, especially in aircraft with low approach speeds.

For simplicity sake, there is no relative wind at sea level. In other words, the ship doesn't have to turn into the wind to launch planes. This was needed for several reasons, including reducing take off roll length, and eliminating a crosswind on deck, something you do not want doing deck runs. This I can live with because it is unlikely that anyone could turn the ship into the wind without some "map board admiral" changing heading while 10 sectors distant, or some clueless dolt thinking he's doing the smart thing.

Also, ship formations never, ever, maneuver like our fleets do when changing heading. This is a compromise of programming, and completely unrealistic.

What would add realism to carrier ops is realistic effect of engine torque at low air speed. If you blow your approach in an F4U, you can go to full throttle instantly at 95 mph and suffer no ill handling. If a pilot did that in the real world, his F4U would try to roll inverted in a heart beat. It could not be countered very much by flight controls (loss of rudder effectiveness at low speed, nose high as well as a loss of aileron effectiveness). Power must be pulled back to stop the roll, but that means a stall is likely. Thus, the real risk of crashing onto the ship or into the sea.

I understand the need to keep carrier ops simple enough for the lowest common denominator, but it does lack a great deal of realism.
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 01:13:34 PM »
Arena Settings>General>Arena Flags
It cannot be changed by players except offline or in Custom Arenas.

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enable squad nuke? :O
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Offline ImADot

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 02:02:38 PM »
enable squad nuke? :O

Settle down...it's not what you think.  I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.  :lol
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Offline Mace2004

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2013, 02:09:58 PM »
What would add realism to carrier ops is realistic effect of engine torque at low air speed. If you blow your approach in an F4U, you can go to full throttle instantly at 95 mph and suffer no ill handling. If a pilot did that in the real world, his F4U would try to roll inverted in a heart beat. It could not be countered very much by flight controls (loss of rudder effectiveness at low speed, nose high as well as a loss of aileron effectiveness). Power must be pulled back to stop the roll, but that means a stall is likely. Thus, the real risk of crashing onto the ship or into the sea.

Funny but this exact thing happened to my Dad during a night landing while flying Spads off Oriskany.  The Spad (AD Skyraider) had the same 13ft prop and a similar engine to the F4U.  Night landings at the time were basically the same as daytime ops using the same visual landing pattern.  His approach was normal as he turned off the 180 and, at the 90, he leveled his wings slightly to check to his right to clear the approach path (if the guy ahead of you turned late but you turned on time you could actually set yourself up for a collision).  When he did his check he spotted red and green navigation lights headed right at him so he gunned his engine to climb but the plane torque rolled putting his wingtip into the water and he cartwheeled in.  Turned out the navigation lights he spotted were the lights on the plane guard destroyer's mast.  The destroyer was much closer to the CV than usual and it hadn't doused its masthead lights as it was supposed to.  The destroyer picked my Dad up and charged the Big O five gallons of ice cream to get him back.  If I were my Dad I think I would have crammed all five gallons down the destroyer OOD's throat.
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Offline asterix

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2013, 05:21:31 PM »
I agree with the first post. Swell direction or lower wave frequency of the current model should be done.
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Offline lyric1

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2013, 08:55:31 PM »
I was on a destroyer 5" gun & now from that view the PT boats get airborne for a few moments then disappear for several seconds under water or behind a swell.

Offline icepac

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2013, 12:33:20 AM »
3350 had a lot of torque.

Got some skyraider stories out of dad tonight.



As far as pt modeling..........I think it is the reverse of what it should be.

You bob in the swells while still and it smooths out once you get moving fast.

Offline BluBerry

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Re: New PT Boat "Swell" Modeling
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2013, 03:17:28 AM »
its nice to pay 15 a month for a game that sometimes feels like its in Alpha Testing..  :lol