High altitude Bomber performance

[Wmaker]

I met him with me at 36,000 feet and he at 34,000 feet.

That picture is where we were after my chasing him for two full sectors and not gaining.

In other words your pic has zero relevance regarding to the ceiling of the Ki-67. Your film on the other hand would be more relevant. Although your film wouldn't show a Ki-67 at 34k because Ki-67 can't climb to 34k in AH.

Testing shows that with ~50% fuel Ki-67's (absolute) ceiling is ~32,4k which matches real life data quite well.

[Tank-Ace]

I've gotten a Ki-67 up to 32K after drop, but have never tested max theoretical altitude. Although I've seen some rather excessive f***ery in AH before, so who knows. But I've never seen something that was flight model related, and not clearly a bug.

Worst thing I've seen was a Tiger surviving a direct hit from an 1800kg bomb, 3 rounds of Pz.Gr 39/42 to the side at 600m, and no less than 4 rounds of unknown type to the side by a T-34/85. All that did was break his left track and turret him.

There was also that infinite rocket thing a while back...

It's clear the game isn't perfect, and there are issues. But that being said, we need the film to know what's exactly going on.

[gyrene81]

you might want to remove that second to last sentence there Ace...that kind of talk will get you a perma vacation.

[morfiend]

There was also that infinite rocket thing a while back...

It's clear the game isn't perfect, and can even be hacked/exploited. But that being said, we need the film to know what's exactly going on.

   You might want to reconsider your posts!  Something similar to this warranted a PNG just recently.

  HTC frowns heavily on this type of statement.



   

  PS: it's a good thing I'm not a mod!

[SirNuke]

lol, quoted for truth

[Vinkman]

Here's a clip of the 45min film. It showes an alt for the Ki-67 of 34.4K. An alt he maintained dispite turning, and slowing to 180mph (shown here.) He was also as fast as 250mph. but through his turns and speed changes the plane never went below 34K. So perhaps the chart is for fully loaded, but if so, the 410 would be fully loaded too, correct? I don't think the 600KG gun, and 25% fuel make it more than fully loaded. So I'm still not sure why I can't catch him. To be clear...no acusations of any funny business...from me. I just think the charts are not clear, or perhaps up to date. 410 should have a clear advantage here.

[Karnak]

The fighter charts, other than the Mosquito Mk VI and perhaps the Il-2, are not fully loaded.  I am not sure what they are, but I would not be surprised if it was for the basic gun package and 75% or 100% fuel.  I think the Mosquito Mk VI is 100% fuel and 2,000lbs of bombs as a legacy of being introduced in the bomber category, the Il-2 may share this "feature".

What gun package did your Me410 have?

[Ack-Ack]

Everything I've read on the Ki-67 says it's max service ceiling was 31,070 ft.

ack-ack

[Fish42]

What gun package did your Me410 have?

The 50mm as you can see in the post above yours. unsure if rockets or external fuel tanks were fitted at the start of the flight or his remaining fuel load.

[Karnak]

The 50mm gun significantly reduces the performance of the Me410.  I also suspect that fuel and bombs make up a larger percentage of a bomber's weight than do fuel and guns on a fighter.

Everything I've read on the Ki-67 says it's max service ceiling was 31,070 ft.

ack-ack

Max service ceiling is the altitude at which climb drops below a certain rate (varies from air force to air force), not the altitude at which climb is 0.  In addition we don't know the weight at which the 31,070ft is the max service ceiling.

[Wmaker]

Here's a clip of the 45min film. It showes an alt for the Ki-67 of 34.4K. An alt he maintained dispite turning, and slowing to 180mph (shown here.) He was also as fast as 250mph. but through his turns and speed changes the plane never went below 34K. So perhaps the chart is for fully loaded, but if so, the 410 would be fully loaded too, correct? I don't think the 600KG gun, and 25% fuel make it more than fully loaded. So I'm still not sure why I can't catch him. To be clear...no acusations of any funny business...from me. I just think the charts are not clear, or perhaps up to date. 410 should have a clear advantage here.

(Image removed from quote.)

All I can really say to that is I'd still like to see the relevant parts of the film. At least using alt-x auto climb it didn't go higher than 32,4k with 50% TA. I did have 500kg bomb on board but I remember dropping it. The film viewer is acting a bit weird regarding what it shows the load out to be in the cockpit. I have to redo the test it seems. The climb speed naturally was quite high at that point at over 280mph TAS so doing an inertia climb would have resulted in higher altitude but only momentarily.

There have been changes to bomber flight modes to address max. alt issues before like the recent change of the Lancs. It's really hard to say off hand if Ki-67 can go higher than it should. That was the reason why I ran the test and came to a conclusion that the absolute ceiling is "within limits" (32,4k) compared to the real world service ceiling. Knowing the Japanese war time definition for service ceiling would be very helpful for comparison with AH.

Everything I've read on the Ki-67 says it's max service ceiling was 31,070 ft.

Same here. Service Ceiling has some margin of climb/turn rate left depending on the exact definition service/country uses. And it obviously varies depending on the weight of the aircraft. So at extremely lightly loaded and with no climb rate left the aircraft can go higher.

For Me410's Service Ceiling I've seen several different figures.


----------------------------------------

If I botched up that test, my humblest apologies for claiming that you are wrong when it was me that was wrong.

[Lusche]

Here's a clip of the 45min film.

Ah, Hevermayr, the ole Ki-67 ace. He goes by the name of molybdenum on this forum. You can ask him about his loadout at that time.

[Ack-Ack]

Could it that old bug that allowed some planes to go above max altitude, like the old bug with the C-47 that allowed it to fly above 40,000ft and in excess of 300mph?

ack-ack

[Karnak]

Could it that old bug that allowed some planes to go above max altitude, like the old bug with the C-47 that allowed it to fly above 40,000ft and in excess of 300mph?

ack-ack

I don't think so.  It wasn't much above service ceiling and it isn't going very fast.  Probably was just very light on fuel and had no bombs with a very slow climb up there.

[icepac]

Speaking of planes flying higher and faster than commonly known.............did Wmaker ever catch the plane he was pursuing in his ME163 earlier today?