Silly Me Post About Tracer Vs Non Tracer.

[bustr]

I cannot remember if tracer rounds in our game have a different trajectory than non tracer rounds.

I was testing tracers turned off with this update. I noticed I was using fewer rounds to kill the drones. I could be seeing things but, that would mean tracers are modeled with different ballistics. I was seeing closer patterned hit sprites when I connected without tracers.

Also found I had a higher hit rate with the Yak 9T against drones if I used the 12.7mm first, then tapped the NS-37 when I had sprites from the 12.7mm. Saved plinking around with the NS-37 looking for contact.

[gyrene81]

Also found I had a higher hit rate with the Yak 9T against drones if I used the 12.7mm first, then tapped the NS-37 when I had sprites from the 12.7mm. Saved plinking around with the NS-37 looking for contact.

i do that all the time with any plane that has cannons and mg's...if only i could shoot better.

[nrshida]

Danny told me that tracers in real life have a flatter trajectory because they lose mass in flight.

[icepac]

The 20mm cannon ball ammo and HE rounds weighed near the same but the tracer round was a little heavier.

If I were making the ammo as a manufacturer, I'm pretty sure I would have tested and modified the amount of "powder" in the tracer rounds to make up for it as much as possible.

After the war, they made all 3 ammo types weigh as close as possible and my dad reports the 20mm cannons in his ride fired all 3 with the exact same trajectory because he strafed ground targets often in places where the humidity allowed you to see the path of the bullets.

In fact, it was so humid that his engine idling on the deck of the carrier caused the tips to make corkscrew contrails.

[Charge]

"I cannot remember if tracer rounds in our game have a different trajectory than non tracer rounds."

No. They are all the same.

The burning tracer material may also cause the projectile to tumble unexpectedly if the material does not burn evenly.

I recall that e.g. in MG151/20 the powder amount was not compensated so AP and MG had different trajectories and MG had greater MV because it was so light.

-C+

[nrshida]

The 20mm cannon ball ammo and HE rounds weighed near the same but the tracer round was a little heavier.

If I were making the ammo as a manufacturer, I'm pretty sure I would have tested and modified the amount of "powder" in the tracer rounds to make up for it as much as possible.

After the war, they made all 3 ammo types weigh as close as possible and my dad reports the 20mm cannons in his ride fired all 3 with the exact same trajectory because he strafed ground targets often in places where the humidity allowed you to see the path of the bullets.

In fact, it was so humid that his engine idling on the deck of the carrier caused the tips to make corkscrew contrails.

Tracers illuminate by burning material, therefore the mass changes in flight. Non tracers have a consistent mass. How can they fly the same?

[icepac]

Because they were designed to by the manufacturers?

I'm just repeating what was related to me by a guy who's fired thousands of both in real life.

The atomic mass of lead is 207 while the mass for phosporus is 30 and the mass for magnesium is 24.

Very little change in weight as it burns.

[gyrene81]

tracers do change weight as they burn and the ballistic trajectory can alter differently depending on the type, caliber, and burn rate of the round. modern ammunition isn't as erratic as world war 1 and 2 ammunition did. and world war 2 tracer ammunition behavior varied from country to country based on the materials and manufacturing process. we're not talking something like a lightning bug all over the place but, depending on the caliber and the range, you could see the behavior if you were looking for it. in the heat of battle, the only thing you want to see from a tracer is if it's hitting the target.

[Randy1]

How many bullets between tracers?  Does having tracers off give you a few extra bullet strikes on the target?

[Blooz]

.50 cal ball ammo bullets weigh about 700 grains. That's about 1 3/4 ounces.

The phosphorus that burns for a split second (the tracer) weighs practically nothing.

If the two didn't fly the same path, what would be the point?
 (rhetorical question, of course. Those clever fellas back in the science lads figured out a way to get those pesky tracer rounds to fly the same path as the ball, the ap, the api, etc. That's why you have different types of tracer. They weigh the same with whatever they're belted with.)

[gyrene81]

The phosphorus that burns for a split second (the tracer) weighs practically nothing.

If the two didn't fly the same path, what would be the point?
 (rhetorical question, of course. Those clever fellas back in the science lads figured out a way to get those pesky tracer rounds to fly the same path as the ball, the ap, the api, etc. That's why you have different types of tracer. They weigh the same with whatever they're belted with.)

uh ok...so how do you explain m2 ball projectile weight is 700gr, tracer is 630gr, api is 639gr, armor piercing incendiary tracer is 619gr?? the weights have nothing to do with tracer types. the types are based on the way the tracers burn.

[icepac]

In WWII, the 20mm tracer used by the USA weigh more than the ball or HE rounds.

No clue what your angle is, gyrene but I doubt the people who designed the rounds know less than you do or that they sent guys to war with tracers that nowhere near where the rest of the bullets are going.

[gyrene81]

well Icepac i think a couple years of range practice testing weapons out to 1000 yards can give a guy a fairly decent idea...we didn't just take them out of the box, mount them up and release them without testing.

[morfiend]

well Icepac i think a couple years of range practice testing weapons out to 1000 yards can give a guy a fairly decent idea...we didn't just take them out of the box, mount them up and release them without testing.

  I think Gyrene is correct if you look at shot out to 1000 yds. I'm willing to bet that the first 300 yds or so there wouldnt be a huge difference in tragectories but once the round are down range at 700 to 1000 yds you would start to see a difference.

  I also have no doubt Gyrene put more than his shhare down range!


   

[nrshida]

I'd have thought the solution is obvious - make every round a tracer. There might be a benefit to a mass-diminishing round as the velocity reduces