Change maps more often,plz

[bozon]

Making a new small good  map won't help, because with this reset settings we'll see it for few hours/month. They have plenty of small fun maps for low and high # of players,like Mindanao,Baltic,.....; but are getting reset in hours and MA is dominated in time by boring  large inactive maps: if the reset % for large maps would be reduced to 12-15%  and for small maps increased to 25-30% , both small and large maps would get reset in about same time.

That is the catch.
Good maps are small and get reset quickly. Bad maps are huge, boring and last for days - the result is most of the time we will have a bad boring map in the MA.

The simplest solution that does not include removing maps from the rotation is to repeat maps in the rotation. A map with 100 bases should appear twice as often as a map with 200 bases.

Example:
if we had 4 maps Small1, Small2, Big1, Big2, then a rotation could look like:
Small1 - Small2 - Big1 - Small1 - Small2 - Big2

My own preference is also to remove some huge maps from the rotation altogether, like this "Compello" map or some similar name. It is the most boring map for air war in the rotation.

[Babalonian]

I call BS. 

Where exactly were all these major MA terrain violations on Trinity?  Second were they also major terrain violations when it was created/introduced?  Finally, if there were all these violations why did HT adapt it over many others to update for MA use again?  There are still a LOT of big maps that have never been updated and put back into use.  So why this faulty (IYO) map?

To set the record straight I always liked Trinity.  One man's pleasure is another man's pain.  I also know and respect the person who made the map; an in-game adversary and friend.  Where's yours?  Ahhh... that's right.

I get not liking a map (NDIsles for me).  Someone mentioned a 24/48 min max map rule further up... good idea.

Then bring back all the maps from the beginning.  Rules violations!  You haven't seen anything.  What a pup.  Maybe you're the ignorant one.

How old are you?  Shut your foolish yap up.  Do you even remember the posts on this forum 2-months prior to Trinity's removal?...  in comparison, the voices asking for it back are litteraly a pathetic wimper.

I've said it many times, I'm getting really sick of you children attacking me for a year now, like Trinity being taken down is my fault.  Sorry if I'm the only adult here wasting his time with the children trying to explain grown-up concepts.  All you need a timeout, sit down or fix Trinity, otherwise I don't want to hear it (and I honestly don't know who does). 

Again, there were a couple things I liked about trinity, doesn't mean it had no place in the MAs.

Personally I hope it burns now, and I hope you do know the creator so you can assure us he got rehab and therapy shortly after its release.  All I've seen from its diehard supporters have been personal attacks against me (for some laughable reason) or kneejerk "yeah Trinity" responces from that guy who hasn't read any of the other threads made on this subject in the last year (+).

Why?

I thought it was definetley not good; not enough CVs, bugy and gamey vehicle spawns, 10k canyons and 20k mountains to encourage plenty of spontaneous action across the fronts, a neglected ignored and overlooked tank town and assets in the center middle, overlapping towns on bases, absence of shore batteries for costal defense of bases, wide spread of air bases... 

Why?  You makes no sence.

The (large) map is roughly 33% water, yet each side only gets 4 CVs, 2 for each front and with starting postitions (at closest) 8-setors away.  The few and far sea battles are maybe only awesome because the 10k canyons and 20k mountains on the starting front lines are so conducive to plenty of spontaneous action on the fronts or lack tehre of?  I assure you, it is not from it's generous supply of CVs for sea battles and engagements, although I agree with you that when they do finaly arrive the action is best to be had on the map.

Land battels are a joke on trinity.  The towns overlap many bases, necesitating deacking and often flattening all hangars before base capture is possible.  Many bases do not have dynamic vehicle spawns available, in that after defending they can go offencive.  Of the few dynamic spawns, and especialy along the front lines, there are gamey and unrealistic spawns that for the most part shouldnt be in the MAs (they also only exist on two of the three fronts, and they are unbalanced - both valid reasons to not be in the MA.).  If instant tank action is wanted, there are bases for it inthe DA.  If gamey spawns so tank duels across a canyone and fron two mountains is desired - go make a custom terrain and host a private arena.  The MAs are for MA gameplay.

Air battles... until you break through teh fronts along the 20k mountain ranges and 10k canyons, are few and far between compared to many other maps available in the rotation.  The few choices at the onset funnels most air combat into specific and confined areas... a waste for such a large map, really limiting player's choices, and mostly causing a concentration that many (especialy this weekend!) voice much disdain over in the MAs.  If you don't like feeling constrained and limited in what options you can make - don't look to Trinity.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,176625.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,209609.0.html

Good old Lusche was getting curious again, and here are the results of that curiosity:

Where did we fly in tour 151, on which terrains did we spend out times on the most?
(Image removed from quote.)

Some terrains have been up twice in this extraordinary long tour. Here the detailed breakdown:
(Image removed from quote.)

And this is the approximate time at which the terrains had been reset (CDT)
(Image removed from quote.)

Now for the question which started this whole analysis: Which terrain is seeing the most GV combat? This chart shows the tank usage (kill+death) share of total usage by terrain:
(Image removed from quote.)
I was a bit surprised by seeing the notoriously GV-unfriendly Mindanao and Baltic still not that far away from the average. I would have expected much lower numbers.


And finally (on this topic): The use of Naval fighters - I was wondering how much naval fighters are getting used from land bases. We have two non-CV terrains in rotation, mesaview and beta2:
(Image removed from quote.)
Number shown is the usage in % of all fighter usage.



So much for Part I. Part II will be coming shortly, taking a look at the stats of the Me 410 and Ju-87G 

I know you'll choke on your pride before I hear any apology.  Goodbye, you are the first person I've ignored on this forum (making you or your opinion lower than even Midway to me).

[Babalonian]

Well for all the "bugs" it might have bring it back till you make a new one.
to me it didnt matter what side you were on always found a good fights
as long as it timed out aft a week.

Matt, please see Lusche's statistic from about a year ago that he posted (quoted in my previous post).  It's not that it only broke multiple MA map requirements for submission.  Nor was it a matter of "as long as it timed out after a week", we still wound up playing on that map over 1/3 of the time...  42% alone in one of its last months.  ~42% of your gameplay a random-chance with getting access to one of the good Vbases/Vspawns on the map, 42% of your gameplay time climbing over 10-20k mountains lining the front lines, 42% of your gameplay on a map made 1/3 of water with only 4cvs.... repetitive to the degree of masochism.



Also, since I would guess 2/3s of players requesting Trinity back for that great GV action it provided...

[rpm]

The problem here is lack of maps. Can we agree that HTC needs to step it up in this area instead of relying on player support? Resting on your laurels is the downfall of gaming. Yes, new planes are cool and essential. But so are new maps.

[HawkerMKII]

The problem here is lack of maps. Can we agree that HTC needs to step it up in this area instead of relying on player support? Resting on your laurels is the downfall of gaming. Yes, new planes are cool and essential. But so are new maps.

+1000 ^^^^this^^^^

[drmoo]

The problem here is lack of maps. Can we agree that HTC needs to step it up in this area instead of relying on player support? Resting on your laurels is the downfall of gaming. Yes, new planes are cool and essential. But so are new maps.

bring it back

[The Fugitive]

I call BS.  

Where exactly were all these major MA terrain violations on Trinity?  Second were they also major terrain violations when it was created/introduced?  Finally, if there were all these violations why did HT adapt it over many others to update for MA use again?  There are still a LOT of big maps that have never been updated and put back into use.  So why this faulty (IYO) map?

To set the record straight I always liked Trinity.  One man's pleasure is another man's pain.  I also know and respect the person who made the map; an in-game adversary and friend.  Where's yours?  Ahhh... that's right.

I get not liking a map (NDIsles for me).  Someone mentioned a 24/48 min max map rule further up... good idea.

Then bring back all the maps from the beginning.  Rules violations!  You haven't seen anything.  What a pup.  Maybe you're the ignorant one.

I would like to know what all these "violations" were on that map as well. The only problem with Trinity is the unrealistic mountain ranges. Trinity was built back when people and squads still ran missions, NOT NOEs. Many a fight happened over those mountains. Buffs wallowing through the canyons with fighters duking it out high over head. Once a foot hold was started on the other side the race was on.

Game play has changed and so the map became a major complaint and so it was removed. There are 13 maps at the moment in the rotation. There are 4 that we had that are no longer in rotation. Trinity, FesterMA, AKDesert, and one that had a "Fight Town" in a crater/lake area in the center, I don't remember the name of it.

Trinity is no longer playable due to changes in game play that make it unpopular. With lower numbers and half of those fighting at either 135, or A1 there were very few planes in the air. (my opinion only)

FesterMA was being redone to the new standards of terrain. Fester said he had spent many hours repainting and molding the terrain to be a work of art. Due to having a issues with a number of people here on the boards he said he trashed it and quit.

AKDesert was lost. The original source files went missing by the original builder and so it could not be updated. SMpizza was a smaller "green" version (AKDesert had sand and stone textures) made to keep the memorys.

The fighter town map that was removed was always said to have been removed due to customer complaint....much like Trinity. Fighters furballed at FT and the land grabbers "didn't like all those "resources" being wasted", or so they said  so they would come in and take the bases there and kill the furballs. Much like they do to the Vbases on ndisles or the other maps that have the center "island" setups.

The problem here is lack of maps. Can we agree that HTC needs to step it up in this area instead of relying on player support? Resting on your laurels is the downfall of gaming. Yes, new planes are cool and essential. But so are new maps.

While it would be nice to see some new maps, the lack of them isn't really an issue. The problem is the game play on them. Ndisles was up last night and this use to be a fun map with lots of fights. You could count on the CVs to be taking one of two paths to their first and most likely ONLY target of the night  GVs run the middle island. 28, 9, and 8 are the hotspots to fight if not furballing over TT.

Last night however the few fighters over TT turned into "pick fests" as nobody can let a fight play out as the "kill" is more important than the fight these days. The Rook horde was in full swing poping base after base in a very predictable strait line, but the Bish couldn't be bothered to defend... as most team don't bother, as they were busy going after the Knights with their horde. They did finally respond when the Rook horde attacked 22 on the center island.

Personally I ran a B24 milk run all the way to the southern most Bish base (30?) and back north drawing only one guy up to fight and he got two of my formation with some awesome shooting <S> vSIXo. Over 10 sectors running THROUGH radar circles and only one guy came after me. It is now either be IN a horde or fly against one. Gone are the days or missions you can fight in.

+1000 ^^^^this^^^^

Greebo made the most recent map and he took a lot of crap for it. People complained about colors, lay outs any thing you could think of. Why would someone WANT to make a map after seeing what he went through. He said if he dropped everything else and was pumped to do another one it would still take months. Now if HTC dropped everything to make a new map we would get what 2, 3 a year? At which point people would be complaining about them with in a couple weeks and looking for new maps again because the same crappy style of play we have now would be on the new maps and so nothing would change. On top of that, to get those few "new maps" we wouldn't get any new planes or vehicles, nor would there be any updates to the art work of existing plane set. Thing of how THAT would go over.   

[titanic3]

So give incentives for players to make them then. Volunteer work only goes so far. It's silly relying on the players to make your own game fun.

[The Fugitive]

So give incentives for players to make them then. Volunteer work only goes so far. It's silly relying on the players to make your own game fun.

It IS up to the players to make it fun. They don't have to build maps to do that either. Some of these "armchair" Generals could make things a blast if they really want to but more and more of them only want to be the "hero" for grabbing as many bases in a row as they can.

[Greebo]

Eh Greebo, let me know what you think of my updates to avachanl running in the AvA for the next two weeks. /endshamelessplug

Very nice Easyscor. Looking at your white cliffs of Dover I though it would be nice if HTC could make something like those cliffs as an MA terrain-allowable object. Plus they could do gorges, sharp ridges, a detailed volcano rim and so on. These could be placed in an MA terrain by the map designer to break up the monotony of the terrain and add some visual interest.

I did once ask HTC what the maximium size an MA terrain could be, but I don't think I got a straight answer from them. IIRC it was something along the lines of judging it on a case by case basis.

[TonyJoey]

Ndisles was up last night, and still had tons of fights, one large furball and a few smaller fights of about 2-3 vs 2-3. It was awesome being on a map where there was ample opportunity for fights with 140 people on at 2:30AM. A few of us half-heartedly tried to hit a base and got 5-6 nits to respond. If Compello had been up it would have been nothing but a ghosttown with that many people on. Small maps definately need a boost in the rotation. I had a blast last night and hope Ndisles is still up today for more fun.

[icepac]

People want to fly the same stale mission profiles over and over and compel HTC to change something instead of varying thier mission profiles to include earning a new map.

[BaldEagl]

How old are you?  Shut your foolish yap up.  Do you even remember the posts on this forum 2-months prior to Trinity's removal?...  in comparison, the voices asking for it back are litteraly a pathetic wimper.

I've said it many times, I'm getting really sick of you children attacking me for a year now, like Trinity being taken down is my fault.  Sorry if I'm the only adult here wasting his time with the children trying to explain grown-up concepts.  All you need a timeout, sit down or fix Trinity, otherwise I don't want to hear it (and I honestly don't know who does).  

Again, there were a couple things I liked about trinity, doesn't mean it had no place in the MAs.

Personally I hope it burns now, and I hope you do know the creator so you can assure us he got rehab and therapy shortly after its release.  All I've seen from its diehard supporters have been personal attacks against me (for some laughable reason) or kneejerk "yeah Trinity" responces from that guy who hasn't read any of the other threads made on this subject in the last year (+).

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,176625.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,209609.0.html


I know you'll choke on your pride before I hear any apology.  Goodbye, you are the first person I've ignored on this forum (making you or your opinion lower than even Midway to me).

Oh no!  Ignore?  Please please please don't ingore me.  

I've read all the threads on Trinity.  Put a timer on it.  Simple enough.

What does my age matter?

I should appologize to you for you bashing my friend who's not here to defend himself?  And then you do it again just before asking for an appology?  What a tool.

You want to spew this trash at the people who give back to the commmuinty and create things for the game you play?  You hope those people's work burns and they have to get rehab?  Again... where are your creations/contributions?  Oh right... you don't have any.  But speaking of being childish those concepts are about as childish as they come.  Grow up.

So, to the matter at hand... where were all these violations?  Oh right... there weren't any.  It was simply an over dramatization.

[dedalos]

People want to fly the same stale mission profiles over and over and compel HTC to change something instead of varying thier mission profiles to include earning a new map.

if that was true then they would not be asking for a change, would they?  These kinds of posts are ridiculous. Are you saying that having a new map would bother you some how?

Last I checked I had a job and it is not creating maps. That should be the game developers job. You know, the one we pay?  HT can say yes or no to requests as they see fit but what compels a player to blame or even attack the other customers for requesting new stuff makes me wonder.

[matt]

Matt, please see Lusche's statistic from about a year ago that he posted (quoted in my previous post).  It's not that it only broke multiple MA map requirements for submission.  Nor was it a matter of "as long as it timed out after a week", we still wound up playing on that map over 1/3 of the time...  42% alone in one of its last months.  ~42% of your gameplay a random-chance with getting access to one of the good Vbases/Vspawns on the map, 42% of your gameplay time climbing over 10-20k mountains lining the front lines, 42% of your gameplay on a map made 1/3 of water with only 4cvs.... repetitive to the degree of masochism.

(Image removed from quote.)

Also, since I would guess 2/3s of players requesting Trinity back for that great GV action it provided...
(Image removed from quote.)

I see your point but theres alot of mapS without mountains that to get repetive.