P38 Multiple Canons?

[Randy1]

 Was there any plans to change the gun package on the P38 during initial design or any later variants like f4u1c experiment?  Something like 3 Hispanos in the nose without the fifties.

I assume the final design was what they could stuff in the nose and CG of the plane.

[Krusty]

There were a few rough field-modifications but from what I recall they were to remove the cannon and put more 50cals in (6-pack nose, etc).

The Hispano in US service wasn't much liked. Due to manitenance and other issues, it tended to jam a lot. That may be the reason that most planes that had them also still had 50cals (even the rare F6Fs that had 20mm still carried 4x50cal with them). The F4U-1C may have had 4 of them simply to hedge bets against jamming. It was more of a ground attack design. That is, if I recall properly

[Saxman]

At least according to the pilot account in Aces Against Japan, the main problem the Hispano faced on the F4U-1C was bad deicers which prevented the guns from working properly at altitude. Otherwise the 1C pilots seemed to find the guns to be a solid weapons system.

Been a while since I've read that book, though.

[Zacherof]

If I remember correctly the 38 was supposed to have a 37mm gun as it was desighned as a bomber intercepted.
The cannon proved rather unsatisfactory and they switched to more reliable and tested weapon systems.

[Krusty]

Sax: I've read that, too. Also a problem on Spitfires, as well. That's why spitfires only mounted hispanos on the inboard position, closer to the heater to keep the guns warm.

Keep in mind that F4U-1Cs were very late to the game. The design (IMO) was made a 4-gun configuration to hedge bets against jamming guns, but by the time they actually got out to service (only 1 or 2 units, if I recall) most of the maintenance problems had been sorted, out, and the proper lubricant was being used on shells and so forth. I imagine that late in the game they worked well. It took a while to get there, though. That stigma of being unreliable stuck with the US forces for some time.


Zach: The 37mm was intended as a design point for the P-38D, but if I recall none of the cannon were ever built (or some such) so the plane changed its design to carry a 20mm.

[Randy1]

I did run across this a few minutes ago.

Armament on the YPs was altered by replacement of two of the .50s with .30s, and the 20 mm cannon gave way to a 37 mm. But even before the YP-38s were completed, the original machine gun arrangement was standardized for production types. The first production order was 35 P-38Ds, followed by 210 P-3XEs which reverted back to the 20 mm cannon. These planes began to arrive in October 1941 just before America entered World War II. With the P-38D came self sealing fuel tanks and armor protection for the pilot.

[Zacherof]

That was it.
One thing I find facsinating in 1930  American aircraft designs was the idea of "can we put the 37mm cannon on it?"

[Randy1]

Krusty point is a good one.  Putting all your eggs in one basket.

Zacherof I wonder if the 37MM had a slow firing rate?

[Ack-Ack]

Krusty point is a good one.  Putting all your eggs in one basket.

Zacherof I wonder if the 37MM had a slow firing rate?

It was to be the same 37mm Oldsmobile cannon that was on the P-39, which was a POS of a cannon.

ack-ack

[Zacherof]

It was to be the same 37mm Oldsmobile cannon that was on the P-39, which was a POS of a cannon.

ack-ack

What he said

[morfiend]

Randy,


  Check out the XP49,it's debatable if it's an evolution of the 38 or not but it shares many common traits.One difference is the extra 20mm cannon to go with those 4 50cals!



   

[Zacherof]

Randy,


  Check out the XP49,it's debatable if it's an evolution of the 38 or not but it shares many common traits.One difference is the extra 20mm cannon to go with those 4 50cals!



   

I thought it was meant to replace the 38.....

[MiloMorai]

on Spitfires, as well. That's why spitfires only mounted hispanos on the inboard position, closer to the heater to keep the guns warm.

The cannons could be mounted in either position.

[morfiend]

I thought it was meant to replace the 38.....

 As I said thats debatable,the engines never worked properly and I'm pretty sure they built 1 prototypr and scrapped the program.




   

[Zacherof]

As I said thats debatable,the engines never worked properly and I'm pretty sure they built 1 prototypr and scrapped the program.




   

I refreshed my memory on the aircraft.