unperk the m4/76

[surfinn]

Honestly Tank ACE
I thought you had something relevant to say at first, now however after further review of your comments I'd appreciate it if ya went some where else as this is AH and not WOT.
Not trying to get personal sir but honestly you don't have a clue as to what your talking about in reference to the M4/76. 

[Tank-Ace]

Care to be specific? Right now, I just see a "I can't win the argument, so time for a logical fallacy"  post.

[WWhiskey]

If you put the M-4/76 at zero,,, and adjust all other tanks accordingly,, you would help solve the perk point problem,, and the panzer would be used to gain even more perks than it does now
Lowering the threshold lowers the price of all tanks above it as well,,, if it was set low enough,, you would see more big tanks out fighting, and more targets for bombing
If you set it at zero for the Sherman firefly,,ect.,ect.,
I do think the t-34/85 should be perked higher than the m-4/76 tho

[Karnak]

I do think the t-34/85 should be perked higher than the m-4/76 tho

]
It is.  T-3485 is perked at 2 and M4A3(76) is perked at 1.

[surfinn]

strange Karnak that's not what i see when in the hanger.

TankACE I love a good debate and its not about winning or losing to me. I'm actually trying to point out a imbalance. You have some good arguments then digressed into other areas so my previous statement stands Thank YOU 

[WWhiskey]

]
It is.  T-3485 is perked at 2 and M4A3(76) is perked at 1.

0 for the M-4/76 to 4 for t-34/85 would be closer, in my opinion,,  1 and 2 doesn't seem like enough to me

On another note,, how many 1 perk point and 2 perk point planes do we have?,,, even 4 perks?

[Tank-Ace]

IIRC the perk display rounds things up when under 1. The M4 is probably sitting around .5 perks, and the T-34 is under the 1.5 line, resulting in it being rounded down to 1 perk.


And earlier you said "you don't have a clue as to what your talking about in reference to the M4/76." Now you're saying I have good arguments, then go off topic. Make up your mind, and keep petty insults out of this.

[Tank-Ace]

0 for the M-4/76 to 4 for t-34/85 would be closer, in my opinion,,  1 and 2 doesn't seem like enough to me

On another note,, how many 1 perk point and 2 perk point planes do we have?,,, even 4 perks?

Why? HVAP is the only thing keeping the T-34 perk worthy, especially since it can take 20 of them.


Ideally, we'd give the German and US tanks some PzGr 40/APCR rounds. Maybe a few rounds of APDS for the firefly, but that could lead to some issues of perk price, since it could punch through the turret of a Tiger II at pretty good range.

Then, we'd have things being both more historical, and easier to balance the perk prices, since no one tank would have a large but severely limited advantage screwing things up.

[surfinn]

Nothing that I have said was a insult to you nor was it meant to be. I feel you are trying to turn this thread into that because you don't agree with my opinion. I'm not going to do that with you. I would ask you one more time to please post something relevant or shut up. You don't have to of course but I'm sure we would all appreciate it.

[Tank-Ace]

See the above, 100% relevant.

[WWhiskey]

My point was what is the baseline tank,, some are better some are less,, but what is the baseline?
The spit 16 is a no perk plane,so is the fm-2, are they the same capability wise ?
In GVs ,,is the panzer a good baseline tank?   I think not,, at one time it was,, it was all we had, but our line of tanks has increased  on the top end a good bit while lesser cost or more capable perk point earning tanks have not come along,, rather than wait to get more low value hi payoff tanks,, just change the baseline,  a lower value tank can still be added,, it will be more of a perk farmer is all,, helping to pay for those high priced T-2s,, my idea of a better baseline would be somewhere around the firefly, maybe a little below,,
More hi value tanks on the field of battle IMO won't hurt the game play, instead, it might help !  The people who want to earn perks in GV,s would get them faster driving panzers, a darn good tank for just that!

[Tank-Ace]

That makes the assumption that the baseline is roughly midway between the two extremes of the spectrum. The best and worst GV's have only the most tenuous connection to if a vehicle is perked or not.

If the M4 were unperked, we would see the M4's become the most common tank in the arena. And it would be at the expense of the Panzer IV H, since those in the T-34/76, M4(75), or Panzer IV F are there expressly for perk farming, or a challenge. It would make the three previous tanks less successful overall, due to it being harder to kill than the Panzer IV H (which is currently the most common GV in the game).

Its perked not because the M4(76) is so powerful in and of itself, but because it kills the usage of other tanks.


And the Firefly would be a god-awful baseline tank, considering the M4(76) and T-34 would be roughly ENY 30 compared to it. A Panther would be maybe 5 perks. Maybe 10 for the Tiger I.... Maybe. Tiger II's would be around 50 perks. The M4(75)'s ENY would have to be off the scale. Something around 50 would suit, if the Firefly were to become the new Panzer IV. A Panzer III would need to be around ENY 60, and the M8 somewhere in the 80 range.


As it is now, the ENY and perk system combined have trouble accommodating the widely ranging capability of all our GV's. Lets not muck it up by raising the baseline.

[Zacherof]

Why? HVAP is the only thing keeping the T-34 perk worthy, especially since it can take 20 of them.


Ideally, we'd give the German and US tanks some PzGr 40/APCR rounds. Maybe a few rounds of APDS for the firefly, but that could lead to some issues of perk price, since it could punch through the turret of a Tiger II at pretty good range.

Then, we'd have things being both more historical, and easier to balance the perk prices, since no one tank would have a large but severely limited advantage screwing things up.

might help allieviate concrete campers. +1

[WWhiskey]

That makes the assumption that the baseline is roughly midway between the two extremes of the spectrum. The best and worst GV's have only the most tenuous connection to if a vehicle is perked or not.

If the M4 were unperked, we would see the M4's become the most common tank in the arena. And it would be at the expense of the Panzer IV H, since those in the T-34/76, M4(75), or Panzer IV F are there expressly for perk farming, or a challenge. It would make the three previous tanks less successful overall, due to it being harder to kill than the Panzer IV H (which is currently the most common GV in the game).

Its perked not because the M4(76) is so powerful in and of itself, but because it kills the usage of other tanks.


And the Firefly would be a god-awful baseline tank, considering the M4(76) and T-34 would be roughly ENY 30 compared to it. A Panther would be maybe 5 perks. Maybe 10 for the Tiger I.... Maybe. Tiger II's would be around 50 perks. The M4(75)'s ENY would have to be off the scale. Something around 50 would suit, if the Firefly were to become the new Panzer IV. A Panzer III would need to be around ENY 60, and the M8 somewhere in the 80 range.


As it is now, the ENY and perk system combined have trouble accommodating the widely ranging capability of all our GV's. Lets not muck it up by raising the baseline.

It is an assumption!   I've been around since 2005,, we had the tiger 1, the panzer, the T-34/76 , the ostwind and the M-8,  a Tiger 1 might cost you 50 perks, but you could make a couple of hundred perks a day running supplies and such,, those kinds of perks are not available today!  one way to help is to move the baseline,, another is to raise the ability to earn perks,, in another thread people were asking for the Tiger 2 to be more commonplace in the game instead of a concrete setting beast,,  if it were 50 to 60 perks,,   you would see more of them, at 200  they aren't going to be around all that much,,, 50 to 60 might be to low,, but I wouldn't charge more than 75   for the tiger 2 and work my way down from there, it is the top of the food chain on the ground
the order of things not including tank destroyers or anti aircraft guns.

Tiger 2
panther
tiger 1
firefly
T-34/85
M-4/76 --------------------center or zero as it stands IMHO!
panzer h
T-34/76
M-4/75
panzer f
M-8

 the T2 is probably going to stay on top,, unless the super Pershing somehow finds its way into the game,,  (  Oh please!!!!)  but even so,, it will probably still be close to the same perk wise
I'd have to see but I doubt you can earn enough perks in one day to get a tiger 2 ,,  not sure about that with the 262,I think I could,, and the B-29,, I know I can go make enough perks in one day to fly the 29!
 just a theory!

[Chalenge]

You replied to this..... Just saying, you clearly can't ignore me, apparently.

Also, the M4 and T-34/76, the worst two actual tanks in the game, have almost double the number of kills each. Unless both are killing as many aircraft as gv's, the Il-2 is half as threatening as the worst tank in the game. Which is to say it might as well not even bother taking off.

What you fail to realize, as the numbers cannot tell you, is that people don't want to fly the IL2 because it has a terrible view. When it has the F3 view it was super-uber. I have used it against every tank in the game, and it kills them all. It does not get used enough, but it is very capable. Something your comments ignore.

BTW, I have been killing rook V103 all night. Never left my base to do any of it. I also filmed an offline sortie from V89 where I sat on V89 pad #3 and killed all of the hangars of V103. If you check that out you will see that from that position you can only see the very tip of the radar, while the rest of the base is hidden by terrain. The M4A3-75 can kill five hangars with one load. The M4A3-76 takes two loads.

Try it yourself.