unperk the m4/76

[surfinn]

disagree with you waystin and smoking the main gun is not hard hitting at all. Its lighter than a panzer h's gun according to the stats. Its armour is very weak etc.

[Lusche]

Its lighter than a panzer h's gun according to the stats. Its armour is very weak etc.

Penetration
Panzer IVH  136/115/98mm
M4(76) 134/115/97mm

That's practically no difference

In terms of frontal armor, the M4(76) is better armored than the IVH if you take the slope into account:

IVH turret front: 50mm @ 80°
IVH upper hull front 80mm @80°

M4(76) turret front 64mm @ 45-50°
M4(76) upper hull front 64mm @43°

And the M4 has the much better gunsight with twice the magnification, which is a big advantage at medium to long ranges.

In game, the M4(76) is the much better tank of them two. I also didn't find anything yet telling me the armor had been "nerfed"... 

[surfinn]

When there was a steep decline in the use of the m476 it coralates with a update at the same time. Il2 fliers had been complaining about their inability to kill it from the side. So it was a patch that said updated the m4s armour but didn't get into the details.  I only know that after that patch the tank became way easier to kill. All of this happened before the m18 and panther was added to the game.

[SmokinLoon]

disagree with you waystin and smoking the main gun is not hard hitting at all. Its lighter than a panzer h's gun according to the stats. Its armour is very weak etc.

Um, the main gun of the M4/76mm and M18 is on par with the Panzer IV H, and only the Panther, Tiger, Firefly, and King Tiger beat it in AP ability (and now the Jagdpanzer IV L/70 and Jagdpanther).  And yes, the T34/85 takes a back seat to the M4/76, M18, Panzer IV F2 and H in terms of AP.  The only advantage the M4A3/76mm has over the Panzer IV H is a 5X magnification for the main gun site and "sloped" armor.  Otherwise, the H and M4/76 are two peas in a pod for the most part (speed, reload rate, MG's, ammo count, etc).  Also, keep in mind that the Panzer IV (F1, F2, and H) all have better HE than the M4/76mm.

FWIW, I prefer the Panzer IV H's tank sight over the M4/76.  Yeah, the 5X is nice but the clarity of the German sight is nice and I learned how to dial in the distance using the mili-radian system I can get more first shot hits with the Panzer IV H (and F2).  

[Karnak]

As I recall Pyro found a bug in the side armor that was making it too tough.  Not really a nerf so much as a fix.

[SmokinLoon]

When there was a steep decline in the use of the m476 it coralates with a update at the same time. Il2 fliers had been complaining about their inability to kill it from the side. So it was a patch that said updated the m4s armour but didn't get into the details.  I only know that after that patch the tank became way easier to kill. All of this happened before the m18 and panther was added to the game.

Respectfully... I'll wait for HTC to verify that they tweaked the armor due to bugs, etc.  Otherwise, I'll go along with the assumption that nothing has changed in terms of armor.

When in question ask for specifics in the Bugs forums.

[Lusche]

When there was a steep decline in the use of the m476 it coralates with a update at the same time. Il2 fliers had been complaining about their inability to kill it from the side. So it was a patch that said updated the m4s armour but didn't get into the details.  I only know that after that patch the tank became way easier to kill. All of this happened before the m18 and panther was added to the game.

The side armor was fixed, which hardly did made it sub-par in terms of tank combat (only a very small minority of tanks is killed by IL-2 or similar tankbusters). All of it's original strengths (see my post above) were kept.

[surfinn]

So before the side armour was "fixed" I didn't mind the perk cost. I still don't mind it I just don't see how it applies today and still don't see how it can be the same perk cost as a t34/85.

[Chalenge]

The side armor was fixed, which hardly did made it sub-par in terms of tank combat (only a very small minority of tanks is killed by IL-2 or similar tankbusters). All of it's original strengths (see my post above) were kept.

You must be referring to the frequency of mudhens over tank strafers. The IL2 is very potent against tanks when it is used properly. ANY tank can be killed with the IL2 guns.

[Karnak]

So before the side armour was "fixed" I didn't mind the perk cost. I still don't mind it I just don't see how it applies today and still don't see how it can be the same perk cost as a t34/85.

M4A3(76) is 1 perk point and the T-34/85 is 2 perk points.  Yes, both token prices, but the T-34/85 does cost twice as much.

[surfinn]

Since in il2 can kill it, does that mean my panther can be unperked?

Zach you said this already move along and don't troll the thread please. If you have something constructive to say please do sir 

[Tank-Ace]

You must be referring to the frequency of mudhens over tank strafers. The IL2 is very potent against tanks when it is used properly. ANY tank can be killed with the IL2 guns.

That's ENTIRELY irrelevant. "Well, it COULD be a major threat!!!"

The fact is that Il-2's are not a serious threat in virtually all sorties. Ju-87G's pose a larger threat usually, due to their firing PzGr. 40 ammunition. But the top threat from the air is ordnance, period.

So before the side armour was "fixed" I didn't mind the perk cost. I still don't mind it I just don't see how it applies today and still don't see how it can be the same perk cost as a t34/85.

Why is the word "fixed" in quotation marks? Do you question the legitimacy of the patch? HTC has absolutely zero incentive to balance out vehicles through unhistorical nerfs and tweaks. The perk system accommodates unbalancing vehicles by making them uncommon.

[Chalenge]

That's ENTIRELY irrelevant. "Well, it COULD be a major threat!!!"

The fact is that Il-2's are not a serious threat in virtually all sorties. Ju-87G's pose a larger threat usually, due to their firing PzGr. 40 ammunition. But the top threat from the air is ordnance, period.

Why is the word "fixed" in quotation marks? Do you question the legitimacy of the patch? HTC has absolutely zero incentive to balance out vehicles through unhistorical nerfs and tweaks. The perk system accommodates unbalancing vehicles by making them uncommon.

Kid, you really don't have a clue about the game. If it can kill you, then it's a threat. I would say you, and your comments are ENTIRELY irrelevant, which is what got you squelched on my end.

[Tank-Ace]

Kid, you really don't have a clue about the game. If it can kill you, then it's a threat. I would say you, and your comments are ENTIRELY irrelevant, which is what got you squelched on my end.

You replied to this..... Just saying, you clearly can't ignore me, apparently.

Also, the M4 and T-34/76, the worst two actual tanks in the game, have almost double the number of kills each. Unless both are killing as many aircraft as gv's, the Il-2 is half as threatening as the worst tank in the game. Which is to say it might as well not even bother taking off.

[Ack-Ack]

Matter of fact, I wish HTC approached the planes in the same manner as it does gv's: apply a small perk price to everything that deserves it (P51D, Spit16, La7, George, Tiff, Spit 8, K-4, Il-2, Lanc, B24, B17, etc).

None of those airplanes you listed are worthy of being perked as none of them unbalance the game play in any fashion.

ack-ack