P-61 Black Widow, Night Fighter

[earl1937]

  Serveral times I have seen post where players want the P-61 night fighter. I thought it might of some use to research the aircraft, as I have no experience with it and just see what the attractiveness of this aircraft is.
First flight for this aircraft was on May 26th, 1942 and was immediately seen as viable night fighter. This aircraft had a number of "firsts", such as airborne radar interception capiblity and the aircraft had the platform to put enough firepower in weapons to shoot down bombers at night. Powered by two (2) P&W r-2800-25S engines, it was capable of 355 MPH speeds, but was somewhat limited by installing only a 2 stage super-charger on each engine instead of the Turbo-supercharged system which would allowed an additional 50 MPH in speed and 10,000 more feet of service ceiling.
While there were some short coming, so to speak, it did not retire until 1964, when the all-weather F-94C became operational for the Air Force.



The P-61 featured a crew of three: pilot, gunner, and radar operator. It was armed with four 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano M2 forward firing cannons mounted in the lower fuselage, and four .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns lined up horizontally with the two middle guns slightly offset upwards in a remotely aimed dorsally mounted turret. The turret was driven by the General Electric GE2CFR12A3 gyroscopic fire control computer, and could be directed by either the gunner or radar operator, who both had aiming control and gyroscopic collimator sight assembly posts attached to their swiveling seats.



The P-61 did not have normal sized ailerons. Instead, it had 15% span tip ailerons which provided a little control, but provided good feel to the main sistem. Most control of the aircraft about the roll axis was maintained through the use of curved, tapered spoilerons, of approximately 10 ft (3 m) in length and 6 in (15 cm) in width. They were located outboard of the outer edge of each nacelle, approximately ¼ the length of the outer wing panel, and offset towards the wing leading edge approximately one third the wing's chord from the trailing edge, running towards the wing-tip approximately half the length of the outer wing. Operation was as follows: the spoileron in the inside wing rotated out of the wing's upper surface into the airstream and reducing lift over that wing, causing the center of pressure to move a certain amount away from that wing and the aircraft to roll.

The production model of the SCR-720A mounted a scanning radio transmitter in the aircraft nose; in Airborne Intercept mode, it had a range of nearly five miles. The unit could also function as an airborne beacon / homing device, navigational aid, or in concert with interrogator-responder IFF units. The XP-61's radar operator located targets on his scope and steered the unit to track them, vectoring and steering the pilot to the radar target via oral instruction and correction. Once within range, the pilot used a smaller scope integrated into the main instrument panel to track and close on the target
The absence of turrets and gunners in most European Theater P-61s presented several unique challenges. The 422nd NFS kept its radar operator in the rear compartment, meaning the pilot had no visual contact with the R/O. As a result, several courageous pilots continued flying their critically damaged P-61s under the mistaken belief that their R/O was injured and unconscious, when in fact the R/O had already bailed out. The 425th NFS had a more novel solution: they moved the R/O to the former gunner's position behind the pilot. This gave the pilot an extra set of eyes up front, and moved the aircraft's center of gravity about 15 in (38 cm) forward, changing the flight characteristics from slightly nose up to slightly nose down which also improved the P-61's overall performance.



The first time I saw one of these aircraft, the first thing I noticed was the air intake for carburetor air and I thought, "they stole that design off of an F4U".
The P-61 had some success in the European theater, but by the time it arrived in the South Pacific and China areas, most of the Jap fighters had been with drawn for home land defense. One odd shoot down was that of a B-29! The Crew had bailed for what ever reason and a P-61 was sent out to shoot it down in the Tonkin Gulf. (Tonkin Gulf ring a bell with anyone?)

Overall, I would rate it a good aircraft, but not sure  how it could best be used in Aces High

[Saxman]

I'd imagine anything the Mossie does now the P-61 would be used for as well. Keep in mind the Black Widow could carry up to 4x1600lb bombs under the wings, too.

[colmbo]

When Dad was on Iwo Jima he got asked if he wanted to ride along on a test flight of a P61 that has been fitted with rockets. Dad said he regretted it, seems test flights proved to be a bit exciting. Evidently they dove steeply and pulled out so low they were blowing spray off the ocean. Me thinks a fly-boy had some fun at Dad's expense.

[Karnak]

It would primarily be a strike aircraft in AH.  The wartime versions (A and B) are much slower than the Mossie.  Some people would do great with it as a fighter though.

[bozon]

It would be an allied 410 - not fast enough, poor maneuverability, but just a huge pile of guns.
No reason not to add it, but I'd place it WAY down in the priority list. Almost every WWII AC I can think off would be more important than this.

[Saxman]

It would be an allied 410 - not fast enough, poor maneuverability, but just a huge pile of guns.

Didn't someone post a story here a couple years ago about a P-61 utterly spanking a P-47 in a mock dogfight?

[Karnak]

Good maneuverability, not poor.

Didn't someone post a story here a couple years ago about a P-61 utterly spanking a P-47 in a mock dogfight?

Not really a dog fight, but a best of three challenges.  First was to take off in the shortest distance possible.  Stock P-61 beat a stripped down P-47.  Second was either a dogfight, or a "shake the other guy off your tail", I am not sure which.  P-47 could not shake the P-61.  Third, which wasn't run because of the P-61 winning the first two and thus the contest, was a speed contest, P-47 would have won that.  P-47 was an N as I recall.

[Zacherof]

Anyone by an chance have a picture of a jug next to a 61 for comparison?

[Karnak]

Anyone by an chance have a picture of a jug next to a 61 for comparison?

No, but the P-47 was very much smaller.  P-47 is closer in size to a Spitfire than it is to a P-61.

[Zacherof]

No, but the P-47 was very much smaller.  P-47 is closer in size to a Spitfire than it is to a P-61.

which is what makes this whole thin funny as the 61'is basically the the size of a small/medium bomber

[Nashorn]

looks about A20ish

[Karnak]

which is what makes this whole thin funny as the 61'is basically the the size of a small/medium bomber

Nothing small about it.  It is the weight of a medium bomber.

[Zacherof]

looks about A20ish

which is pretty much what it look like when you look at the specifications

[Nashorn]

pfffft specifications are like instruction manuals, no need to look at them   

[earl1937]

pfffft specifications are like instruction manuals, no need to look at them   

Ok, I was tired when I posted the story, here is the spec's:Crew: 2–3 (pilot, radar operator, optional gunner)
Length: 49 ft 7 in (15.11 m)
Wingspan: 66 ft 0 in (20.12 m)
Height: 14 ft 8 in (4.47 m)
Wing area: 662.36 ft² (61.53 m²)
Empty weight: 23,450 lb (10,637 kg)
Loaded weight: 29,700 lb (13,471 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 36,200 lb (16,420 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-2800-65W Double Wasp radial engines, 2,250 hp (1,680 kW) each
Propellers: four-bladed Curtis Electric propeller, 1 per engine Propeller diameter: 146 in (3.72 m)

Fuel capacity: Internal: 640 gal (2,423 L) of AN-F-48 100/130-octane rating gasoline
External: Up to four 165 gal (625 L) or 310 gal (1,173 L) tanks under the wings

Maximum speed: 366 mph (318 kn, 589 km/h) at 20,000 ft (6,095 m)
Combat range: 610 mi (520 nmi, 982 km)
Ferry range: 1,900 mi (1,650 nmi, 3,060 km) with four external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 33,100 ft (10,600 m)
Rate of climb: 2,540 ft/min (12.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 45 lb/ft² (219 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.15 hp/lb (250 W/kg)

Time to altitude: 12 min to 20,000 ft (6,100 m) (1,667 fpm)
Guns: ** 4 × 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano M2 cannon in ventral fuselage, 200 rpg 4 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in remotely operated, full-traverse upper turret, 560 rpg

Bombs: for ground attack, four bombs of up to 1,600 lb (726 kg) each or six 5 in (127 mm) HVAR unguided rockets could be carried under the wings. Some aircraft could also carry one 1,000 lb (454 kg) bomb under the fuselage.
One of the interesting aspects of this aircraft features was the "spoilers", which have proved, on certain types of wings, the most efficient way to create and maintain a turn. I would bet that when they designed the spoilers into the aircraft, most of the talk about spoilers were just theory, but after installation on production models, proved to be a asset to the aircraft.