$1.08/Hour and Rising

[Karnak]

How far down do you think they depress?  You earlier said straight down, which they clearly do not.

Now, graphically the inner .303 barrel clips about 2/3rds of the width of the barrel into the shell chutes, but I am not sure if that if because it depresses further than it should or if it is just a graphical inaccuracy.  It looks like the tail gun depresses by about 60 degrees in AH.  The Lanc's nose guns do not depress into any of the aircraft's graphics in AH.

As to the other stuff you posted, your point is?  AH is in the daylight where Lanc tail gunners can see fine.  The light armament on Lancasters lead them to have very poor survivability in AH.  Anybody who flies bombers much will tell you they lose tail gunners.

[Franz Von Werra]

I know that the first ping kills my stuka gunner every time, 110 gunner too!

I SHOOT at BOMBERS all the time, from in a fighter, and I TELL YOU that LANCS REAR GUNNER fires back at me without END.
Even after I flash the sheet out of the rear turret - oooh kaay?  

Let me explain it in English...
CHING CHANG!
ok? got it? kewl! 

[Karnak]

I know that the first ping kills my stuka gunner every time, 110 gunner too!

I SHOOT at BOMBERS all the time, from in a fighter, and I TELL YOU that LANCS REAR GUNNER fires back at me without END.
Even after I flash the sheet out of the rear turret - oooh kaay?  

Let me explain it in English...
CHING CHANG!
ok? got it? kewl!  

Which guns show as firing on your FE don't reflect the guns the other player is actually firing.  On your FE it looks like all guns are firing at you, even those that can't bear.  Only on the shooters FE does it graphically show which guns are and are not firing.  The dead guns can't hurt you.


If you want to test it I am willing to up Lancasters and do controlled testing.

[Oldman731]

Has anyone ever killed a lancasters tailgunner?

Yes!  I did that once, flying a 202.  Wish I could remember the Lanc pilot's name, we had a great time, me following him and pumping BBs into his plane.  I think he augured just short of his field because he ran out of fuel.  He told me I'd killed his top turret gunner and his tail gunner.  Hey, it was a 202.

That was way back in AH1, though, I expect many things about the flight model and gunnery and so on have changed quite a bit.

- oldman

[uptown]

The downward angle at which the Lancs tail guns in this game can fire do seem a bit extreme to me. But it is what it is and I'm no expert.

[Karnak]

Unfortunately the only aircraft I have arcs of fire info for is not currently modeled in AH, the H8K2 'Emily':

[Franz Von Werra]

uhh, that's the wrong plane, some 'expert' you are!  

Honestly though, I was in a 3set of 111's today, an La-7 came up from dead 6, I fired, all amo from top and bottom guns and the La-7 died, and even though he pinged me a few times, I think no damage received to my 111's!

Sooo, yeah, maybe I do like the 111 now! 

[Flench]

Over the last 6 months my Aces High has cost me $90/hr since I haven't played at all.

Same here . Kind of lame to pay 15 a month just to keep your name .

[thrila]

I believe the depression for the FN20 tail turret was 45 degrees.

[dhaus]

"I don't think."  Sums up schlowy's posts pretty well.  So much conjecture reaped from such little investment in facts.

[FLOOB]

*he111 Has sad face pilots? How insulting, plane did well enough in other fronts, no bomber survives enemy fighters.

Do I even need to add any comment to this?

[bj229r]

I'm still trying to grasp how the 110 tail guns were gonna kill ANYthing (AND, they were a miserable failure as an escort)

[Karnak]

I'm still trying to grasp how the 110 tail guns were gonna kill ANYthing (AND, they were a miserable failure as an escort)

He seemed to be confusing them with the 'schage musik' installation of fixed cannons firing at about a 45 degree angle forward.

[Franz Von Werra]

Karnak:
Still haven't found gun arch diagrams for the Lancaster?

bj229r
England's Radar and 50 miles of water and fighting over friendly territory advantage.

How did England's 'Defiant' interceptor work out?
Guns: 4 × 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns in hydraulically-powered dorsal turret (600 rpg)
No forward firing guns.   <---- 110 way better
So lanc's had no escorts because... spits were very short ranged. Too bad England didn't have 110's!

[Karnak]

Karnak:
Still haven't found gun arch diagrams for the Lancaster?

As I said, I only have the diagrams for one aircraft.  I posted it so as to provide an example to you of what we needed you to provide to support your claim that the Lanc's arcs were too large.  It is for you to support your claim, not me.

bj229r
England's Radar and 50 miles of water and fighting over friendly territory advantage.

Sorry, no.  There are reasons, valid ones, but that is not it.  P-47s and P-51s faced the same against Germany, but were successful escorts because they could engage Bf109s and Fw190s from a qualitative parity, whereas the Bf110C-4 was at a disadvantage against both the Hurricane and Spitfire.  This isn't to say the Bf110 wasn't a useful type, or that it didn't have successes against Hurricanes and Spitfires, just that the fight favored the Bf110's opponents.  Goering's close escort order that came down during the battle exacerbated an already bad situation.

How did England's 'Defiant' interceptor work out?
Guns: 4 × 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns in hydraulically-powered dorsal turret (600 rpg)
No forward firing guns.   <---- 110 way better

Yes, the Bf110 is vastly superior to the Defiant.  The Defiant saw some initial success due to misidentification and later as a night fighter against bombers, but has to be considered one of the most disastrous aircraft programs of WWII.

So lanc's had no escorts because... spits were very short ranged. Too bad England didn't have 110's!

Bf109s and Fw190s are both significantly superior to Bf110s, hence Bf110s in RAF service would not have been successful trying to escort Lancasters into German airspace during the day.

Late in the war Mosquitoes were sometimes used as escorts for Lancasters during daylight operations, but I don't see that as a valid test of the Mosquito's capability as an escort as the Luftwaffe was a ragged shell of its former self by that time.