Next Setup

[R4M]

uuuuuuuuuups double post  

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[R4M]

ups ups ups ,not double, triple post...
I feel a bit stupid now  

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[R4M]

Originally posted by -ammo-:


I like SW's setup,  because it seems to be based on just that..history.

yah, history is to pit an early 1943 piece of junk against 1944 material. The only early 1944 stuff the germans will have is the 190A8. How historical.

No, better. how typical  

 

You just want to replace the 109G10 with the 109G6 because you think the best model of the 109G6 should be available..

No, the best model of the 109G6 no. If we just had a late 1943 G6 with a DB605AS engine. No MW50 needed. That should give a decent speed of around 405-410mph at 20K, I would say nothing.  But the 109G6 modelled in AH is a piece of crap in a early 1944 set. At that time there were lots of g6s rocketing the sky at 426mph, so I say "put the G10 to simulate it"-

After all Typhoons "simulated" beaufighters in Afrika Korps, right?  

BTW the Spitfire LF.IX is just 20mph fastest, on the deck than the Spit IX we have. At 25K is as fast as the one we have.

the 109G6 we have is steadily 20mph slower than a 109G6 with DB605AS AT ANY ALTITUDE. and between 30 and 40mph slower AT ANY ALTITUDE than a 109G6 with MW50.

As you see, both planes are in a "comparable" disadvantage  

Thats all I see its pointless to argue. You get your latest P47D11 (porked until 1.08, BTW), and we fly in early 1943 stuff (109G6, 190A5), or worse, in a 190A8.

I bet you will feel great  

[-ammo-]

Darn Boy, you would figure after all the posting you have done you would get it right by now

[R4M]

Hehe...did you never mistook the reply button for the Edit one?  

I bet that not 2 times in a row...

I feel VERY VERY Stupid  

[AKSWulfe]

Last I checked I tend to fly German planes more.. but I could be mistaken...

Anyways, what 1944 plane? The P51B? Okay remove it then.. even though it's actually a late '43 plane.

Other than that, I have no idea what 1944 plane you are talking about.

As far as this: "No, better. how typical."

I hope the other guys that fly LW aircraft understand what that that is the perfect example of a "LuftWhine".

I never played Afrika Korps, it was a jury rigged planeset.

"I bet you will feel great"

Oh, I will. I'm not as inept in the air to need a 109G10, I shot down 2 Tempests, a SpitIX and a Typhoon in a 109G2 in one flight in the CT.

I had two Tempests and a SpitIX dogfighting me and a buddy. Wingman was shot down, I shot down the SpitIX and the remaining two Tempests.

So if you somehow assume I need a later war plane or I am somehow part of an "allied conspiracy", it won't be much of surprise. You go away for a while, and come back, but it's still the same ol' record.
-SW

[R4M]

Originally posted by SWulfe:
Anyways, what 1944 plane? The P51B? Okay remove it then.. even though it's actually a late '43 plane.

Other than that, I have no idea what 1944 plane you are talking about.

but,but,but...the P47D11 OF COURSE   ask ammo!!  

(sorry, sorry couldnt resist  )


About the other part, SW, I couldnt care the less wether you fly german stuff, japanese planes or US Iron. I dont care if you do good or bad on the planes you fly.

 What I say is that Germany's early 1944 planeset will be way better represented with a 109G10 than without it, given the planes we have now. And that the resistance against it is something I find really pissing, sorry.

Even when the G10 is a late summer 1944 plane, is something wich can make the role of the true 109G6 wich was there at that stage, better than the 109G6 we have in AH's planeset.

Granted, my view can be somewhat biased because I mostly fly LW planes. I have to say that in a set with the 109G10 I would fly mostly fw190A5s and 109G2s, and the 109G10 much less. Is not a thing of me but as the sides in a historical representation-

Anyway I knew I whined out loud there  . Still that is just what I think.

[AKSWulfe]

SpitV and 109G10 in the same arena just don't mix in anyway.

I want parity using what we have as far as historical dates go. I would have thrown the P38L in there to replace the P38J if I wasn't thinking about parity.

You didn't think about that of course, you saw me deny any use of the 109G10 and 190D9 in the planeset I listed and immediately went on your allied conspirator conquest or that I would need the best aircraft on the allied side so they would win.

That's simply a joke.

Apparently you do care what I fly or how I fly or what planes I prefer otherwise you wouldn't of placed insinuating comments in your post. Namely the ones I quoted just above.

You can't simply say, "Look you have a P47D-11, I think we need a 109G10 to counter it!"

That's a joke. Should the Allies get a Tempest to counter the 109G10? They WERE counterparts after-all.

You have to take the BEGINNING of the list to figure out what the LAST plane on the list will be, you just can't make a mix 'n match planeset. Otherwise it's simply the MA, something I said many months ago would happen when the first heated topics popped up about a Historical Arena.

My guesstimation is proving correct, atleast up to this point.

You either go with "historical", keeping planes within a certain time period together and performance wise, or you go with... well the main arena.

I'm not trying to represent an early 1944 planset, I'm trying to represent a 1943 planeset.
-SW

[-ammo-]

Different subject, but here is the truth according to my sources on the D11. The D11 arrived in theatre in Late 43, and was combat ready with the new prop in Jan 44. The p-51B also arrived on the scene in the same time period.

source "56th FG" Osprey books

[R4M]

Originally posted by SWulfe:

You didn't think about that of course, you saw me deny any use of the 109G10 and 190D9 in the planeset I listed and immediately went on your allied conspirator conquest or that I would need the best aircraft on the allied side so they would win.

huuuuuuuuuuh? 190d9?...I said that I'd like a 190D9 as perk but that was much much much before than when this started   . In a february 1944 set, the D9 has indeed no place if perk points are not to be used (wich I hope THAT THEY ARE used  ).


Apparently you do care what I fly or how I fly or what planes I prefer otherwise you wouldn't of placed insinuating comments in your post. Namely the ones I quoted just above.

You can't simply say, "Look you have a P47D-11, I think we need a 109G10 to counter it!"

That's a joke. Should the Allies get a Tempest to counter the 109G10? They WERE counterparts after-all.

Of course it was a joke. INDEED IT WAS!!!   see the smilie? and the ample grin?...

I was making a little joke about that long thread about hte P47D11 in the Aircraft and vehicles forum (in wich, BTW, ammo was right about the paddle prop).

I'm not trying to represent an early 1944 planset, I'm trying to represent a 1943 planeset.
-SW

then we would still be missing the 109G6 AM, andthere is no place for a P51B. The P47D11 can be used as a D5...but then,and if they get the padde prop (wich they should, btw) we have the same problem as with the G6/G10 thing, right?  )

SW, your problem with this is that you have taken it with a complete puritan look. As I said I'd rather havea P38L than none P38 at all in a february 1944 set. And I'd ratehr have a P47D11 with paddle prop than none at all, in an autumn 1943 set.

With the limited planes we have, we should reach a compromise to get what there was actually there. That means that sometimes you fall too short. Sometimes you fall a bit long. But not too short nor too long.

What it matters,at least for me, is that it looks like and feels like an historical set. not to bring here a book with dates and cry that this or that plane was still not there.

but that is only my opinion. and BTW take the jokes as they are...jokes (I'm talking about the P47D11 comment   )

Oh, and just to put it clear, I Will be enjoying the CT arena with G10, without G10, in a 1944 set, a 1943 set or a 1942 set   I just want to see ppl thinking with an open mind, and not letting the options to go away just because a given plane was still not there (but one very similar indeed was)

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[AKSWulfe]

I don't think the P47D-11 has a paddle blade propped, it's apparently under-weight which is why I suggested "or D-25".. but I would prefer not to have it (better visibility 'n all).

I take it from the puritan outlook because after 8 years of playing these things in HAs, MAs, etc, my experience in this areas has proven to me that if you pump out a lopsided planset it's simply not fun.

There's no point in including a 109F4, SpitV or anything along those lines when 109G10s, P51Ds, Tempests, Ta-152s, 190D-9s, P38Ls, and other late war planes are running about the arena. Except for the first day, if a perk system was implemented, because they'd need those to get perk points to afford the late war planes. After that.. they are unused and it's simply a waste of time to enable them or even bother including them.

Lets focus on a small part and not just start adding planes in as we see fit. These setups probably aren't going to be up for very long, just give a smaller limited scope planeset a shot.

You never know, you might actually have fun with it.
-SW

[Toad]

I'd like this to be _different_ from the MA. Otherwise, what's the point?

The MA planeset has a performance spread that is just too large. An example being the range between the C202 and the Tempest.

My idea of fun would be to take a smaller slice of time, use a planeset with a narrower spread of performance which (I think) would emphasize the quality of "the nut holding the stick" (the pilot) a little bit more.

That's why I liked SW's limited planeset idea.

[Westy MOL]

Ram, I think your list is only missing the 190-F for a jabo capability.


 Anyway......

 Well the more this is argued to be made into a pure historical arena the more it will become pretty much historically accurate. And when that hapopens it's only a matter of weeks or months before no one flies there.

 What is Westy talking about?? The damn fool, head up his butt and talking out his arse!

 It's really simple. What I am saying is that one side tends to dominate the other at different points in time if aircraft are available when they historically were.

 And that is simply no fun for anyone except for the six people who want this setup to be a hardcore historically accurate arena.

 In reality folks do not like being the whipping boy for long and they tend to drift go back to the MA pretty quickly until they have planes they can fly competatively against the other side with. The rest who try to stick it out end up hating it and leaving because they do not like fighting against the large lopsided numbers that tend to result when one side feels repressed too much and they go back to the MA.  They quickly grow tired of constanbtly flying from damaged bases or running from groups of gang banging enemy planes.

 My posts have only remarked on helping to keep the plane set within a general time period, 1943-early-1944, but at the same time try to make some reasonable choices in the name of parity so that it becomes a place where player vs player counts (human interaction) and not plane-set vs plane-set (mechanical interaction).

 I'm in the minority I see and with no ill will or hard feelsing I wish you luck <S>. If you go "HA" you'll go bust. That's just "IMO" of course, but it is based on the online events from the last 10 years.
 
  Westy

[AKSWulfe]

Westy, I don't see how my plane set gives any advantages to one side or the other in terms of aircraft selection or aircraft abilities.
-SW

[AKDejaVu]

I'm not going to sit here and claim to have special insight on what planes historically match up.  Especially when it seems that those with much more learning on the subject can't seem to agree.

All I'd like to see is a very small planeset to chose from.

Wulfie's idea gets my vote because of that.

AKDejaVu