FW 190 shake down flights.

[aztec]

Yes it is.  I have that one and the New Guinea one from 99.  Since Warbirds was a Hitech game at that time and the predecessor to this game I thought it was appropriate. 

Cool, I have the New Guinea one as well.

[Changeup]

wow whats wrong with the AH A8? This thing can actually turn w/o stalling

Can you believe how that A8 hung with that 47 flat turn??  That must have been brutal on that 47 driver knowing that 190 was pulling lead fora shot for 35 seconds.   The 47 should have turned right, not left, lol

[ntrudr]

I have been playing Hitech's Warbirds, then AH since 96 or 97, and he has always made the 190A8 a pig.  He has always rebuffed all efforts to get it improved.

wow whats wrong with the AH A8? This thing can actually turn w/o stalling

[save]

 

wow whats wrong with the AH A8? This thing can actually turn w/o stalling

[Changeup]

I have been playing Hitech's Warbirds, then AH since 96 or 97, and he has always made the 190A8 a pig.  He has always rebuffed all efforts to get it improved.

Well, now HITech has gun camera evidence.  Less evidence was needed for the Brewsters performance I suspect.

[morfiend]

Well, now HITech has gun camera evidence.  Less evidence was needed for the Brewsters performance I suspect.

 Even though the gun cam shows the 190 getting angles on the 47 it means little!  You can do that in AH provided your airspeed is in the range of 250 to 275 mph,ok closer to 275 than 250 but you get my point.

  While the 190 is G limited below corner in AH,I suspect the real 190 was similar.



   

[Karnak]

 Even though the gun cam shows the 190 getting angles on the 47 it means little!  You can do that in AH provided your airspeed is in the range of 250 to 275 mph,ok closer to 275 than 250 but you get my point.

  While the 190 is G limited below corner in AH,I suspect the real 190 was similar.



   

We also no nothing of the P-47's situation there.  Combat encounters are, contrary to Gaston's firm belief, not controlled flight tests.

[GScholz]

47 was pulling tight enough to make wingtip contrails.

[Changeup]

47 was pulling tight enough to make wingtip contrails.

For 5 seconds....gentlemen, argue as you wish, the 47 was pulling with all his might and if you look closely, you'll see he's dropped at least one notch of boards...can't tell for sure of course but based on the exposed starboard corner it looks like at least one notch.

We're at 250 and dropping.  So, pulling that hard into flap speed plus 5 seconds gets you to what speed?  Below 220?  Chances are they were below that already just from the prior sustained turn.

[Butcher]

For 5 seconds....gentlemen, argue as you wish, the 47 was pulling with all his might and if you look closely, you'll see he's dropped at least one notch of boards...can't tell for sure of course but based on the exposed starboard corner it looks like at least one notch.

We're at 250 and dropping.  So, pulling that hard into flap speed plus 5 seconds gets you to what speed?  Below 220?  Chances are they were below that already just from the prior sustained turn.

We have a winner, what does Changeup win? congrats its not a trip to Cuba but... the winner of the forum argument. next contestant, COME ON DOWN!!! (price is wrong bob!)

[Wiley]

For 5 seconds....gentlemen, argue as you wish, the 47 was pulling with all his might and if you look closely, you'll see he's dropped at least one notch of boards...can't tell for sure of course but based on the exposed starboard corner it looks like at least one notch.

2 things, not because I want to keep the 190 man down, but in the interest of accuracy:

1)  Looks to me like the 190 is closing pretty much at all times in those shots until the very end.

2)  Guncams are slow motion are they not?  Anybody know what the rate of slowdown is?  Looks to me like it might be 50%ish?  That would put it at 2.5 seconds, not 5.

Carry on with your agenda though.

Wiley.

[Changeup]

2 things, not because I want to keep the 190 man down, but in the interest of accuracy:

1)  Looks to me like the 190 is closing pretty much at all times in those shots until the very end.

2)  Guncams are slow motion are they not?  Anybody know what the rate of slowdown is?  Looks to me like it might be 50%ish?  That would put it at 2.5 seconds, not 5.

Carry on with your agenda though.

Wiley.

Some are, some aren't.  The 47 film may be 28 fps but based on how the hits look, it appears real-time. 

Upon further review, the 47 was trying to beat the 190 in the vertical at somewhere between 50 and 70 degrees relative to the ground.  That's why the 47 pulled out of the picture at the top of the loop (clouds in the background) as he was maneuvering better at a slower speed and the 190 got angles at the bottom of the loop (terra firma in the background) because the 190 got some E back on the way down the loop.

Argument withdrawn...

[Wiley]

Some are, some aren't.  The 47 film may be 28 fps but based on how the hits look, it appears real-time. 

Upon further review, the 47 was trying to beat the 190 in the vertical at somewhere between 50 and 70 degrees relative to the ground.  That's why the 47 pulled out of the picture at the top of the loop (clouds in the background) as he was maneuvering better at a slower speed and the 190 got angles at the bottom of the loop (terra firma in the background) because the 190 got some E back on the way down the loop.

Argument withdrawn...

 

...Agenda comment respectfully withdrawn.

Still think it looks like slow motion though.

Wiley.

[Changeup]

...Agenda comment respectfully withdrawn.

Still think it looks like slow motion though.

Wiley.

I agree until you see the hit plumes....they seem to move appropriately but it's 8mm film so who knows.

The 47 screwed the pooch....and clearly the 190 pilot couldn't hit a whiff if he was shooting at poop

[Wiley]

I agree until you see the hit plumes....they seem to move appropriately but it's 8mm film so who knows.

The 47 screwed the pooch....and clearly the 190 pilot couldn't hit a whiff if he was shooting at poop

Where I think a lot of peoples' perceptions go wrong is when it comes to defining the 'edge of the envelope'.  I don't think more than the top couple percent of sticks can actually get right to the edge of the aircraft's capabilities in this game.  I also think about half the players believe they can.   In RL, the percentages are likely a lot lower.  I'd bet very few engagements in the war were actually decided by the properties of the aircraft versus the capabilities and decisions made by the pilot.

When it comes to videos/anecdotes, there's just no way to know the exact conditions of the planes, skill levels of the pilots, and the legion of other factors that contribute to the outcome.

When it comes to ingame performance, math is the only thing that counts.  Everything else is just noise.

/hijack

Cool 190 vid!

Wiley.