Author Topic: Cruisers in Aces High  (Read 1943 times)

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Cruisers in Aces High
« on: August 25, 2013, 03:38:35 PM »
 :airplane: I have thinking about the cruiser used with the CV's and I think a good addition to the game would be "Scout" aircraft, launched from the cruiser, such as the Vought OS2U Kingfisher aircraft. Yes, unless it was "adjusted", it would be an easy kill, even for a tank I guess. But what if it had no "Icon" and showed no DAR? That way, it could be used just like the real ones, as observation aircraft to direct fire on targets for the cruiser. The OS2U Kingfisher was a more modern single-wing floatplane that joined the fleet in 1940. Its OS2U designation indicated that it was an observation/scouting aircraft—the second (2) observer/scout produced by Vought (U). You might think that as a monoplane, it would have been faster than the biplane Seagull, but the Kingfisher had an even less powerful Pratt & Whitney R-985 Wasp Junior engine with only 450 hp. This was a conscious design choice. It allowed the Kingfisher to be small yet still be a monoplane without folding wings. However, it only gave the Kingfisher marginally better performance than the Seagull—a maximum speed of 170 mph and a range of 1,485 miles. Although the Kingfisher was not very superior to the Seagull, it was produced when the Navy was gearing up for war, so Vought built a large number of them. Before production ended in 1942, 1,519 Kingfishers were produced by Vought and the Naval Aircraft Factory. This was small by fighter and bomber production volumes, but the OS2U was the most widely produced floatplane in World War II.



The Navy was not real happy with the "Kingfisher", so Curtis aircraft company, designed and produced the SC Seahawk, which would be my nominee for addition to our cruisers.
Both the Seagull and the Kingfisher were two-seat aircraft. Late in the war, the Navy adopted a different scouting approach for cruisers with its last major ship-launched floatplane, the Curtis SC Seahawk. Taking its cue from the Nakajima A6M2-N “Rufe,” which was a Zero with a float, the Seahawk was a single-seat aircraft with two forward-firing 50 caliber machine guns. Its 1,300 hp R-1230 engine gave it a maximum speed of 313 mph at 28,600 feet. Even at sea level, it could reach 238 mph. Its high speed at altitude was due to the engine’s turbocharger. The Seahawk had a good range of 1,090 miles. As its designation indicates, the SC was a pure scouting plane. (Radar had eliminated the need for observation aircraft.) Designed to operate from cruisers, it finally allowed the Navy to retire its few and overworked SOC Seagulls. The Seahawk, however, had little impact on World War II. It did not go into combat until June, 1945, two months before at the end of the war. The Seahawk served until 1949, when the Navy stopped carrying scout/observation aircraft on cruisers and battleships. By then, radar had finally eliminated the need for scouting as well. The final production count for Seahawks was 562.
While I know the "nay-sayers" will shoot this idea full of holes, just think, the Seahawk could "hover" over a base and direct fire, just like they did in the real war!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 03:41:40 PM by earl1937 »
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline Zacherof

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 11:43:36 PM »
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1 :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
In game name Xacherof
USN Sea Bee
**ELITE**
I am a meat popsicle

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 12:06:50 AM »
have you ever heard of any gunner in the cv that actually takes direction from any other airplane?



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline RngFndr

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 08:11:47 AM »
I am neutral about floatplanes, fine with me.. Kingfisher would be cool, if the USS Missouri came with it..

But gotta admit, that Curtis Seahawk is kinda cool lookin..

Offline No9Squadron

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 87
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 08:24:55 AM »
I suggested CAM ships.

I would prefer to see the Catalina, than any US-only plane.

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 02:00:50 PM »
have you ever heard of any gunner in the cv that actually takes direction from any other airplane?



semp
:airplane: Now comes the part that no one is going to like but I think it would add to the game! Remove the ability of directing fire on a target by "clicking" on a map! Then you would have use for the float plane and a gunner on the ship at the same time. As it stands now, I can sneak a CV group close to shore, white flag a town and deack, launch a LVT and capture the place by myself. I have never done that, but have a squad member who has done it on more than one occasion. Again as in my post, you would have to eliminate icons and dar targets for the scout aircraft to make it fair!
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline MK-84

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 07:25:26 PM »
:airplane: Now comes the part that no one is going to like but I think it would add to the game! Remove the ability of directing fire on a target by "clicking" on a map! Then you would have use for the float plane and a gunner on the ship at the same time. As it stands now, I can sneak a CV group close to shore, white flag a town and deack, launch a LVT and capture the place by myself. I have never done that, but have a squad member who has done it on more than one occasion. Again as in my post, you would have to eliminate icons and dar targets for the scout aircraft to make it fair!

So instead of clicking on a map perhaps the guns slave to the most recent smoke grenade? or a grenade dropped from a .wingman?  Sorta like that? 

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 03:03:48 PM »
So instead of clicking on a map perhaps the guns slave to the most recent smoke grenade? or a grenade dropped from a .wingman?  Sorta like that? 
:airplane: Naw! people then would have to learn how to "adjust" fire from cruiser such as: forward 600 yards and right 200 yards! Of course that would be to complicated I guess for a lot of players. The observer in the aircraft would have to act like a real "forward" observer, and the gunner on the cruiser would have to perform like a real Navy gunner! Maybe that would make it to "realistic"!
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 03:10:46 PM »
:airplane: Naw! people then would have to learn how to "adjust" fire from cruiser such as: forward 600 yards and right 200 yards! Of course that would be to complicated I guess for a lot of players. The observer in the aircraft would have to act like a real "forward" observer, and the gunner on the cruiser would have to perform like a real Navy gunner! Maybe that would make it to "realistic"!


yeah and with 3 gunners on the cruiser how would you be able to tell who's rounds you are directing?  in addition with all the chatter on range about the battle this is just gonna add more confusion.

and what happens if everybody is busy with their own battle to be directing navy fire?  what are the gunners gonna do?




semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24760
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2013, 03:16:11 PM »

yeah and with 3 gunners on the cruiser how would you be able to tell who's rounds you are directing?  in addition with all the chatter on range about the battle this is just gonna add more confusion.

and what happens if everybody is busy with their own battle to be directing navy fire?  what are the gunners gonna do?




semp

Guess one of them could direct (like I've often seen). "14k went long but not by much, boys." "Thanks, adjusting."

But I've also seen flyers (self included) give the cruiser guys some guidance.

Offline Rino

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8495
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 04:43:30 PM »
     So we push back WW2 naval gunnery back a few decades...how does this enhance gameplay?
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline jeffdn

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2013, 09:00:03 AM »
yeah and with 3 gunners on the cruiser how would you be able to tell who's rounds you are directing?  in addition with all the chatter on range about the battle this is just gonna add more confusion.

and what happens if everybody is busy with their own battle to be directing navy fire?  what are the gunners gonna do?

Perhaps each set of guns could have a "tracer" type effect that would allow for visual identification of the turret it came from to friendly aircraft, or maybe only just that cruiser's spotter aircraft.

Anything that requires teamwork is a good thing...

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24760
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2013, 09:51:55 AM »
Perhaps each set of guns could have a "tracer" type effect that would allow for visual identification of the turret it came from to friendly aircraft, or maybe only just that cruiser's spotter aircraft.

Anything that requires teamwork is a good thing...

Would a spotter plane in real life know what turret just shot a thousand yards long?

If AHII could model coincidence rangefinders then that would be interesting. To make it fair, all ship guns other than dedicated aa should be able to operate their own CR (and, for coordinated gunnery, report to other batteries, ready to fire). Here's an example of what the device looks like:



Here's a description of what it does:

"Ships in WWI and WWII used coincidence rangefinders to aim their guns. The coincidence rangefinder was basically a long tube with prisms behind forward-facing lenses at either end, and an eyepiece at the center for the operator. The eyepiece showed an image that was horizontally split in two, with the top half from the prism at one end and the bottom half from the prism at the other. The operator turned a dial that rotated the prisms, eventually aligning the two images (making them "coincident"). Once the images were aligned, the angle of the prisms would be taken measured and the range of the target ship determined via trigonometry. "




Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2013, 10:04:15 AM »
Would love to see this added.

While the Seahawk has better performance, the OS2U is the one that should be modeled: It's FAR more representative, and had the bigger impact on the war.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline jeffdn

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
Re: Cruisers in Aces High
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2013, 10:59:25 AM »
Would a spotter plane in real life know what turret just shot a thousand yards long?

I know the Japanese at the very least used colored dye in their shells so that the splash in ship-to-ship combat would indicate which ship fired it.