Author Topic: Late model Me-109 twin radiators  (Read 2027 times)

Offline jeffdn

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Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« on: August 27, 2013, 09:58:41 AM »
Does anyone have solid information about the twin radiators in the late model Bf-109s, including specifically which model they started installing them on? I somewhat frequently get radiator hits in my 109, and it'd be nice to have a way to at least make it home.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 10:32:06 AM »
Does anyone have solid information about the twin radiators in the late model Bf-109s, including specifically which model they started installing them on? I somewhat frequently get radiator hits in my 109, and it'd be nice to have a way to at least make it home.
I thought it was all Bf109s that had that feature.

All Spitfires with the symmetrical radiators (Mk VIII, Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI in AH) had it as well.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 11:36:33 AM »
i thought all 109s from the e models forward had twin radiators...but they weren't independent.
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Offline jeffdn

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 02:01:57 PM »
i thought all 109s from the e models forward had twin radiators...but they weren't independent.

They were, gyrene81, and they were actually designed for the exact purpose mentioned in my OP. As they were vulnerable to ground fire, there were independent shutoff valves that enabled the fighter to keep on truckin' with only one radiator.

Offline jeffdn

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 02:03:07 PM »
I thought it was all Bf109s that had that feature.

All Spitfires with the symmetrical radiators (Mk VIII, Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI in AH) had it as well.

They were introduced in 1941 with the Bf-109F series.

Offline beau32

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 02:40:44 PM »
The radiators were not meant to continue on if you shut one off. It was to help buy you time to hopefully get closer to friendly lines if possible. Even if the handle was pulled to the shut off valve, they still leaked.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 02:44:39 PM »
The radiators were not meant to continue on if you shut one off. It was to help buy you time to hopefully get closer to friendly lines if possible. Even if the handle was pulled to the shut off valve, they still leaked.
It wasn't automatic?
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Offline beau32

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 02:48:40 PM »
No, there are handles on each side of the cockpit for you to pull to shut the valves off...

Quote
the finn manual of Bf 109 G-2 notes on pg 14, Part 6, Cooling system :

"If either one of the liquid coolers is hit, the damaged cooler must be disconnected from the system immediately by pulling the handles on the left and right in the forward part of the cockpit depending on which the radiators was damaged."

« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 02:57:38 PM by beau32 »
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 03:36:44 PM »
Spitfire had electrical grids on each radiator that was supposed to detect any penetration and activate the shutoff valve.
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Offline Bino

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 03:56:10 PM »
Hey, whaddaywant?  The rudder trim "system" on the 109 was the pilot's left foot.   ;)


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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 04:00:07 PM »
Hey, whaddaywant?  The rudder trim "system" on the 109 was the pilot's left foot.   ;)


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Offline bustr

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 05:06:00 PM »
Bunnys(Ardy) tried to get this implemented a few years ago as a mechanical standard in the K4. Research on it showed that it was a murky area of if it actually got updated into many of the K4 rather than it was a field kit. The piping is there but, the hoses have to be cut and valves inserted which then had manual pull noodles from the cockpit. The K4 cockpit photo that most reference was a factory photo to show a finished cockpit with all that could be available. I could never find diagrams for the factory system nor the field kit.

A very wise response from one player. Hitech takes such things into account, then automates them as part of the engine management process he chose to go with.

From all the time bunnys and I spent looking, here is the only photo found that might be the valves. Notice the hose clamps galore, so the references to being issued as a field upgrade are likely.


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Offline jeffdn

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 08:46:29 AM »
The radiators were not meant to continue on if you shut one off. It was to help buy you time to hopefully get closer to friendly lines if possible. Even if the handle was pulled to the shut off valve, they still leaked.

Are you sure about that? I was reading an account of a German ace that was forced down behind Russian lines in 1943, and in his account, he describes showing the Soviet ground crew at the field he was taken to the twin radiators and the ability to shut one down, and the amazement the ground crew showed at that technological innovation.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 10:31:19 PM »
Page 312 of "Spitfire: The History" by Morgan and Shacklady has three photos and a description of the system introduced with the Mk IX.

I would like to see this damage control measure added for both the Bf109F-4 and later and the Spitfire Mk IX and later in AH.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Late model Me-109 twin radiators
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2013, 02:08:05 AM »
It may already be accounted for in the amount of time you have before your engine ceases like all of the other inline engine radiator hit cease up time.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.