Author Topic: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank  (Read 3809 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 01:14:28 PM »
An unkillable T-34  :rofl.....

You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Butcher

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 01:17:59 PM »
Exactly what we need, another Soviet tank that is nearly unkillable. No thanks.


Umm, the IS-2 was kill able, It wasn't designed to combat the Tiger or Panther, rather it was a breakthrough tank designed to smash fortifications, so it had heavy armor and a big gun, it doesn't mean it couldn't be killed.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 01:21:01 PM »
Yeah, that whole Is-2 being designed (or even adapted) to combat tanks of any kind is pure myth. Its even a myth about the Is-2 being armed with the 122mm because of shortages of the 100mm. The 122mm was chosen because it had a much better HE shell, while maintaining acceptable penetration, and thus was better suited for a break-through tank.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Denniss

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 01:31:41 PM »
The 122mm gun was in production, the brand-new 100 not. That and the larger HE shell was the reason for gun choice. the 100mm did not appear in numbers until late summer 44.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 02:01:26 PM »
The IS-2???  Seriously???  This thing wouldn't be any more difficult to destroy than a Panther.  Someone please post the abilities of the main gun as well, it isn't all it is cracked up to be.  The extremely slow fire rate alone would seriously hamper its ability to survive in the MA.

Seriously folks... the IS-2 isn't all it is cracked up to be.  HTC would do better to put their gv time and efforts in to the Su-100 instead.   :aok
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2013, 02:09:37 PM »
The IS-2???  Seriously???  This thing wouldn't be any more difficult to destroy than a Panther. 

Umm a Panther would have to close to 600m to destroy an IS-2 from the front. Tiger I think would go toe to toe at either 1200 or 1400m. You would have to flank the IS-2 in order to kill it, which means its a pretty tough target even if its reload time is slow.

Panther has far more speed and can flank faster, but an IS-2 only needs to get close to blow the tracks off a tank or dislodge the turret.


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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2013, 03:09:35 PM »
Umm a Panther would have to close to 600m to destroy an IS-2 from the front. Tiger I think would go toe to toe at either 1200 or 1400m. You would have to flank the IS-2 in order to kill it, which means its a pretty tough target even if its reload time is slow.

Panther has far more speed and can flank faster, but an IS-2 only needs to get close to blow the tracks off a tank or dislodge the turret.

Uhhh....  The Panther's gun is better than the Tiger's out to past 2000m IIRC.

Also, aren't you usually going on about how ranged combat is relatively rare? And a direct hit with an AP shell won't always take tracks off, and rocket salvos are 50/50 at best. Splash from a 122mm isn't going to do what you're imagining.

Also, frontal LOS armor values are pretty close between the Panther and Is 2. At close range, the Panther actually has a pretty large advantage in combat.

And at long range, ROF will really start to hurt it.


It would be an assault tank with good anti tank capabilities, even if it can't stand the heat in direct combat.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Butcher

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 03:25:25 PM »
Uhhh....  The Panther's gun is better than the Tiger's out to past 2000m IIRC.

Also, aren't you usually going on about how ranged combat is relatively rare? And a direct hit with an AP shell won't always take tracks off, and rocket salvos are 50/50 at best. Splash from a 122mm isn't going to do what you're imagining.

Also, frontal LOS armor values are pretty close between the Panther and Is 2. At close range, the Panther actually has a pretty large advantage in combat.


AT normal Combat range of 1,000 meters the Tiger and IS-2 can knock each other both out, At Longer ranges the capabilities of both tanks were dependant on the crews and battlefield conditions. The Thicker Front armor of the IS-2 protected it against Tiger I Fire at ranges of over 1500meters while the Tiger was still Vunerable to IS-2 Fire. A Close hit from a HE round from an IS-2 was capable of knocking out tracks or in case of a direct hit dislodge the turret. However the German tank enjoyed markedly better optical equipment than the Soviet tank, a featrue which influenced any long-ranged engagements. The relative Advantages and Disadvantages of both tanks meant that victory in tank combat was most often dictated by teh tactical situation and Crew performance.

So that explains the IS-2 is just as capable as the Tiger, it just depends on the situation - in aces high that means either tank can win.

NOw for the Panther - In overall terms, the IS-2 and Panther were a fairly close match in anti-tank firepower. But the panther carried far many more rounds, 81 against the Stalins 28. The difference was a consequence of the Soviet selection of the 122mm gun, which had larger and heavier ammunition then the German long 75. Both guns had similar anti armor penetration at 1,000 meters (150-160mm) the German projectile weighting at 4.7 kg while the Soviet projectile weighed a staggering 25 kg.
The IS-2 stalin had a significant advantage over the Panther in terms of armour both on the turret front (160mm vs 110m) and Hull front (120mm vs 90mm) the soviet advantage came from the expense of internal volume, another reason the Soviet tank carried so few rounds of ammunition.

Accord to German Tactical instructions a Panther needed to close to 600 meters to guarantee a penetration of an IS-2 while the IS-2 could penetrate the Panther at ranges of 1,000 meters. However both tanks could penetrate each other of a range of 2,000 metres (From the side i forgot to add this). The Panther while a more nimble tank, which top speed was 46 km/h against 37 km/h.

Now onto Range combat, its been my experience over the years of tanking in Aces high, my average combat has been 1000-1400 yards max unless I flank to some hill and shoot down on a battlefield. Of course an AP round wouldn't knock the tracks off, however a close hit from an HE round of the 122mm is enough to knock out a Turret or Tracks. It would have to be a direct hit on the turret ring in order for this to happen, the 152mm were known to do this (KV-2 tank for example simply just had to hit a german early war tank to blow it up).

Does this help answer your questions? I mistakenly guessed the ranges earlier, these numbers have been taken out of IS-2 Heavy Tank 1944-1973


« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 03:27:59 PM by Butcher »
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Offline Denniss

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2013, 05:05:55 PM »
Again, the IS-2 had nowhere 160mm of frontal armor plates, this may only be correct if counting the thickest armor spot of frontal turret + gun mantlet. The Panther would have ~200mm in this case.
Only the IS-2 model 1944 looks equal or better than the Panther - the model 1943 was penetrateable at almost any range because of the weak flat frontal armor section with just 60mm or the near-vertical front plate of 120mm.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2013, 05:13:41 PM »
Y9our distances are subjective you know. I have killed Tiger IIs before from 5k from the front.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2013, 06:18:51 PM »
Y9our distances are subjective you know. I have killed Tiger IIs before from 5k from the front.

I'll take the bait.....

Someone please post that "O Rly" meme of President Bush.

If you in fact got a kill on a King Tiger at 5000 yards, I want to know A: What were you smoking?, and B: what gun did you use an what part of the King Tiger did you connect with?  There has got to be a bug and you must have found it... at 5000 yards.  I don't even have to look up the gun stats to know that there is not a gun in AH, other than maybe an 8in or 5in naval gun that could take out a King Tiger at 5000 yards.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2013, 07:50:43 PM »
I'll take the bait.....

Someone please post that "O Rly" meme of President Bush.

If you in fact got a kill on a King Tiger at 5000 yards, I want to know A: What were you smoking?, and B: what gun did you use an what part of the King Tiger did you connect with?  There has got to be a bug and you must have found it... at 5000 yards.  I don't even have to look up the gun stats to know that there is not a gun in AH, other than maybe an 8in or 5in naval gun that could take out a King Tiger at 5000 yards.

Only an 8 inch gun could possibly, but he wouldn't have film to prove it either way.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2013, 02:24:09 AM »
I'll take the bait.....

Someone please post that "O Rly" meme of President Bush.

If you in fact got a kill on a King Tiger at 5000 yards, I want to know A: What were you smoking?, and B: what gun did you use an what part of the King Tiger did you connect with?  There has got to be a bug and you must have found it... at 5000 yards.  I don't even have to look up the gun stats to know that there is not a gun in AH, other than maybe an 8in or 5in naval gun that could take out a King Tiger at 5000 yards.

I just did it again tonight. In fact, nearly did it three times, but two guys towered before I was finished. It takes three and sometimes four hits to finally punch through, but it can be done.

EDIT: I just checked the film from tonight. The range was 4.4k and at that range I killed a Tiger II and three Jagdpanthers.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 03:01:52 AM by Chalenge »
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2013, 11:08:25 AM »
I'm assuming you're talking from the side with another KwK 43. If not, I call BS. There is no tank gun in the game capable of defeating the frontal armor of a Tiger II at 4.4k. Even the Jagdpanther is HIGHLY questionable at that range.


Fact of the matter is that you need to provide films for your claims. You do have something of a reputation for bluster and exaggeration, so nobody is going to take your word for it.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Soviet IS-2 Heavy Tank
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2013, 05:05:05 PM »
I just did it again tonight. In fact, nearly did it three times, but two guys towered before I was finished. It takes three and sometimes four hits to finally punch through, but it can be done.

EDIT: I just checked the film from tonight. The range was 4.4k and at that range I killed a Tiger II and three Jagdpanthers.

We'll assume you're using a the Jagdpanther as a platform (or the King Tiger).  Please find the penetration values for that 88mm at 2000 yards. Post it.  Then based on film add in what you think the angle of your impact was to the armor in question.  Post it.

Now... if the armor is able to shrug it off with either a perpendicular hit or 30 degree hit at 2000 yards, then 4000+ yards should be able to as well.  Likewise, at that range the angle of impact can be a huge trump card as well (just like being up close).  So... may I suggest you verify your ranges and your angle of impacts, and then send the film to HTC because there is an obvious damage bug.  NOTHING in AH, be it the Jagdpanther or the 17 Pdr AT gun on bases should be able to defeat King Tiger or armor at that 4000+ range.  At this time, I'll gamble on the Jagdpanther being in the same boat (I'll go look up armor next).

Send the film to HTC, they will look it over.  They fixed a bug in the Panther, I'm sure they'll do the same for the King Tiger and Jadgpanther.
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.