MG151/20 for the K4

[Butcher]

Oh really? Then why didn't you post a source right away where you got your info that only first dozen had 20mm as a motor cannon?

Do you actually have a source or are you just adding noise to the thread?

I have nearly a dozen Me-109 books ranging from E to K, nothing mentions much on numbers other then fact the K-4 used the 20mm and 30mm. The only thing I sadly don't have is the armament reports for August-December 1944 from the messerschmitt factory which would tell me which models got what coming out of the factory. Due to the bombings many records are lost, I am also missing the Armament Technical manual for the 109 series (september 1944 and on). Each new model a new manual was printed which shed lights on what what changes happened etc.
I cannot get any information on them period, or even find them to buy them - this would tell me a great deal on what the factories put on the aircrafts. Unless someone has this information its going to be damn near impossible to prove the K model had ALL 30mm or all 20mm.

[Wmaker]

I have nearly a dozen Me-109 books ranging from E to K, nothing mentions much on numbers other then fact the K-4 used the 20mm and 30mm.

.....

Unless someone has this information its going to be damn near impossible to prove the K model had ALL 30mm or all 20mm.

Yep.

This is exactly what I've been saying all along. Prien, Rodeike & Czech authors for example mention that both were used. As the production numbers for both K-4 and G-10 for example are not known exactly it could well be that this kind of exact numbers will never be found out.

[LCADolby]

Got a downloadable version for the 109E series Butch??

 

[Butcher]

Got a downloadable version for the 109E series Butch??

 

I can mail it to ya whatever you want

[lyric1]

Perk the K4.  

[Tank-Ace]

I would like that. Are you asking for it only to have the mg151? or have the same package as the G14?
cause thge way im reading it you want to do away with the mk108. idk maybe its time for bed

K4 would have the same gun options as the G-14, but without the gondolas.

But because HTC would already be doing work modifying the K4, what they should do is duplicate the code. One with both the 30mm and 20mm, and unchanged aerodynamics. That would be our K4. Then we take the copy of the code, remove the 30mm option, lock the tailwheel down, and remove the landing gear covers.

[Babalonian]

Oh really? Then why didn't you post a source right away where you got your info that only first dozen had 20mm as a motor cannon?

Do you actually have a source or are you just adding noise to the thread?


Is it really that hard to try to keep these threads on topic?

One may also ask the other way round, is there any evidence for 20mm-hub K-4s in combat?
Gondies were always an option for the K-4, just like any other G-series fighter so why not include them as option?

You must be new here Denniss, speaking logic will get you no where, here borrow my flame suit.


WMaker is a real funny guy around here, I almost love him, but he has relentlesly argued into this game top-line actual-combat brewsters but won't let us even THINK (nevermind discuss) actual-combat 190s.  It's funny because I just don't get it, he flips from one side of the coin on the Finnish Brewster being the one Brewster modeled (best brewster model ever fielded, and a fighter that was further modified to be a better fighter), to the A8 being the one A8 modeled (nevermind it being the heaviest and being a modified fighter specialised for hit and runs against bombers).  

Yep.

This is exactly what I've been saying all along. Prien, Rodeike & Czech authors for example mention that both were used. As the production numbers for both K-4 and G-10 for example are not known exactly it could well be that this kind of exact numbers will never be found out.

No it's not, you speak nothing of logic these days and haven't since the Brewster was released, but that's not why I ignore you now.  Recently you've only been lurking in the wishlist forums, being as supportive and contributing as usual.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353252.0.html  Go hump on somoene else's leg since a few more before me were the first persons to of brought this up, and I've heard/read of it before too, but I don't care enough about 109s to own a book or know where the source comes from.  

Read your responces again.

Oh really? Then why didn't you post a source right away where you got your info that only first dozen had 20mm as a motor cannon?

Do you actually have a source or are you just adding noise to the thread?


Is it really that hard to try to keep these threads on topic?

Yep.

This is exactly what I've been saying all along. Prien, Rodeike & Czech authors for example mention that both were used. As the production numbers for both K-4 and G-10 for example are not known exactly it could well be that this kind of exact numbers will never be found out.

What the heck does "what you're talking about" have to do with missing armament reports that YOU YOURSELF acknowledge nobody will ever likely absolutely know?... nonsense is what you're speaking.

And not to go offtop again, but I concluded long ago you'll keel over and die before agreeing to change or add another 190A8 in AH, but if you change your mind and want to help us get more models in the game that actualy saw wide use in combat, I'd love to welcome you.

[Krusty]

wmaker likes to hide behind that "source" demand of his sometimes. Not always, but sometimes when he (IMO) really wants something and has nothing to back it up.

As for this entire thread, it's already being discussed in the other forum. Does this thread exist simply because you didn't like the answers you were getting? The answers that explained how few K-4s ever had 20mm options? And ignores the point that even some that did were converted to Mk108s after leaving the factory?

This thread is just wasted space, because the response received in that other sub-forum wasn't siding with you. Stick to the other topic.

[nrshida]

wmaker likes to hide behind that "source" demand of his sometimes. Not always, but sometimes when he (IMO) really wants something and has nothing to back it up.

Yes that idiot, he and the entire scientific community with their fangled peer-review nonsense. Far better what you do: conjecture and quote websites 

[Wmaker]

You must be new here Denniss, speaking logic will get you no where, here borrow my flame suit.


WMaker is a real funny guy around here, I almost love him, but he has relentlesly argued into this game top-line actual-combat brewsters but won't let us even THINK (nevermind discuss) actual-combat 190s.  It's funny because I just don't get it, he flips from one side of the coin on the Finnish Brewster being the one Brewster modeled (best brewster model ever fielded, and a fighter that was further modified to be a better fighter), to the A8 being the one A8 modeled (nevermind it being the heaviest and being a modified fighter specialised for hit and runs against bombers).  


No it's not, you speak nothing of logic these days and haven't since the Brewster was released, but that's not why I ignore you now.  Recently you've only been lurking in the wishlist forums, being as supportive and contributing as usual.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353252.0.html  Go hump on somoene else's leg since a few more before me were the first persons to of brought this up, and I've heard/read of it before too, but I don't care enough about 109s to own a book or know where the source comes from.  

Read your responces again.

What the heck does "what you're talking about" have to do with missing armament reports that YOU YOURSELF acknowledge nobody will ever likely absolutely know?... nonsense is what you're speaking.

And not to go offtop again, but I concluded long ago you'll keel over and die before agreeing to change or add another 190A8 in AH, but if you change your mind and want to help us get more models in the game that actualy saw wide use in combat, I'd love to welcome you.

So no source then? So you just pulled that number of K-4s produced with the 20mm cannon from your hat then?

Where did you come up with the number "less than a dozen"? If you knew to post that number you must have read it from somewhere right?

Welp, this drivel about the Brewster certainly won't warrant an answer.

You don't have a faintest clue about any Brewster data or numbers, nor is your perception on how it performs in the game worth commenting about.

wmaker likes to hide behind that "source" demand of his sometimes. Not always, but sometimes when he (IMO) really wants something and has nothing to back it up.

 

Nothing to back up? Interesting.

Ok lets play your way then. I'm going to state that EXACTLY 50% of the K-4s came with MG151/20 and the other 50% came with MK108. How do I know this? WELL BECAUSE I SAY SO!!!!! I don't need to present a single source for my statements since you don't seem to either. Now if you try to ask me where I get this 50% figure from I'm going to accuse you of "hiding behind a source demand" (what ever the hell that means).



What a moron.

Yes that idiot, he and the entire scientific community with their fangled peer-review nonsense. Far better what you do: conjecture and quote websites  

Thanks shida for the biggest laugh of the week!

<S>

Oh dear!  

[nrshida]

Thanks shida for the biggest laugh of the week!