Author Topic: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt  (Read 1749 times)

Offline Bino

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5937
Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« on: September 07, 2013, 12:31:26 PM »
JG11 (in Doras) had a long, running battle against a gaggle of B-26s who were returning home after attacking the large airbase (A2) near Schweinfurt.

The bombers maintained a tight, disciplined formation, and kept up a steady hail of gunfire each time we made our attacks.

Well fought!  We only managed to claim a couple of your number before we had to break off, low on fuel and ammo.   :salute


"The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'." - Randy Pausch

PC Specs

Offline snakeplissken

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 02:05:52 PM »
That was the Gunfighters and they were escorted by The Unforiven and the Freebirds.  You guys would not let those bombers go!  It seemed like the fight lasted 2 or 3 lifetimes.  Well fought by you guys!  The buffs made it through but you mauled the escorts!
The Unforgiven motto: Quid posset ire iniuriam

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 04:41:41 PM »
i'd seen the damage to that base. someone kicked serious but to get there.  :aok
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Online Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8993
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 07:00:43 PM »
i'd seen the damage to that base. someone kicked serious but to get there.  :aok
More like inadequate defensive planning. The misuse of assets was appalling.
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline TheBug

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5652
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 07:03:55 PM »
More like inadequate defensive planning. The misuse of assets was appalling.

What are you Perdweeb's apprentice now?
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline perdue3

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4672
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 07:21:16 PM »
What are you Perdweeb's apprentice now?

 :D
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

FlyKommando.com

 

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 07:52:03 PM »
More like inadequate defensive planning. The misuse of assets was appalling.

 it sure as heck didn't feel that way as i went down in flames, lololol.
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Online Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8993
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 08:19:24 PM »
What are you Perdweeb's apprentice now?
I have my own opinions, thank you.

I really don't want to throw the CiC under the bus, but I had a very bad impression from the moment I opened the orders, and I saw what I called the "worst case scenario" come to fruition during the event. Mind you, the "misuse" I refer to is not in who was assigned what plane, but instead in where they were stationed. A2 was to be protected by KN(7-10) and 334th(4-6). Both of us are good squads, but an expected combined strength of 11 to 16 planes is grossly inadequate for base defense.

This is compounded by having one of my squad members wasting his time and wasting a 262 in scout duty. 262's are best used in small groups, not as singular units. Instead, you are removing a member of a squad and placing them in a position to be of little use to the group.

I also don't like the CiC using the  " Squad CO choice of aircraft" method when it comes to using non-restricted planes. If the CiC cannot decide for himself who would do best in a given plane, then the flight lead should have the authority to decide. Instead, he is relying on squad CO's to coordinate on their own initiative to decide what is best. Usually this ends up being a free for all, and ops are uncoordinated and ineffective.

This is by no means an insult to CaptA or VMF-101, I've seen other CiC's make the same mistakes before. But, the combination of these three issues really makes things difficult before even seeing an enemy, or dealing with their plan.
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline 33Vortex

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4754
      • Dirac's equation (non truncated)
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 08:34:06 PM »
...and ops are uncoordinated and ineffective.

Welcome to the last few months of the war!

GameID: Turner
Truth has no agenda.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 09:05:08 PM »
wasnt a 262 that spotted our bomber formation and allowed the 109's to rip thru us?  and now you saying that was due to a mistake?



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline ELD66

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1588
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 10:24:48 PM »
Well fought Gunfighters. 1 pass you gave me a pilot wound and radiator hit. Very good gunnery.

I still made it back to base and landed safe during my 5th blackout.
 :salute
E1Diablo in game

Member of JG11 Sonderstaffel


Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2013, 10:26:34 PM »

This is compounded by having one of my squad members wasting his time and wasting a 262 in scout duty. 262's are best used in small groups, not as singular units. Instead, you are removing a member of a squad and placing them in a position to be of little use to the group.

funny since topgun was issued 262s in a scenario as scouts and it worked out just fine. Fact 262s can race track a very LARGE area, its best to keep them solo or groups of 2 and recon. Based on my experience flying a 262 in a scenario, I would of certainly done the same.
Only difference was, once contact was made, we regrouped before attacking, and we did a great job attacking.

It makes sense, we flew at 20k and 10k (this keeping the alt covered) and did not engage until we were regrouped, with experienced pilots, it works as intented and worked well since the bombers did not get to their targets in 3 out of 4 frames.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 10:32:26 PM by Butcher »
JG 52

Online Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8993
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2013, 10:37:25 PM »
funny since topgun was issued 262s in a scenario as scouts and it worked out just fine. Fact 262s can race track a very LARGE area, its best to keep them solo or groups of 2 and recon. Based on my experience flying a 262 in a scenario, I would of certainly done the same.
Only difference was, once contact was made, we regrouped before attacking, and we did a great job attacking.

It makes sense, we flew at 20k and 10k (this keeping the alt covered) and did not engage until we were regrouped, with experienced pilots, it works as intented and worked well since the bombers did not get to their targets in 3 out of 4 frames.

Exactly my point. Who does a solo 262 regroup with?
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline ELD66

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1588
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2013, 11:04:17 PM »
Exactly my point. Who does a solo 262 regroup with?
They don't. In this setup 262's are scouts. If you find your obj, report it and find another region to scout and find more. Remember every lost 262 in this setup is not available in later frames.
E1Diablo in game

Member of JG11 Sonderstaffel


Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: Salute! to B-26 raid at A2 near Schweinfurt
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 11:11:04 PM »
Exactly my point. Who does a solo 262 regroup with?

He can easily reassign himself to any other unit, in my previous experience I was the last 262 pilot flying, I found out which units were "hurt" and still had action going on, I jumped to their vox after I rearmed and rejoined the fight.
There is no rule a pilot cannot jump VOX channels or be reassigned, I basically asked on comms, checked it out with the CIC and flew back into action. And while all this went on, I was actually just a "recon" pilot.

I did this multiple times, use the 262s advantage of speed and endurance - later on use its gun package - i dunno it worked for me.
JG 52