STRAT IDEA FOR CT....................

[hazed-]

firstly i need to know if it is possible to make the entire factory area a target that scores/counts hits.(the square that each factory complex/airfield sits in)


say we have a target like a fighter factory.
whilst it remains in one piece it means the type it produces is freely available.
In order to destroy this factory it needs a MINIMUM of 18,000lbs dropped in the space of ONE minute ANYWHERE within the factory square(encourage salvo drops).This would mean that individual attacks by lone bombers on these aircraft factories would be next to useless, but a concentration of 18,000lbs(3xb17s,this needs to be agreed  upon) or more would 'down' the installation for say 1 hour or so.During this time the type of aircraft it produces would become a perk plane that is quite expensive (id suggest 10 perks for a 18,000lb drop, 11 perks for a 24,000, 12 for 30,000 and so on)
This would mean the MORE you send to bomb the more expensive the enemy aircraft type will cost.
the idea is to present each side with targets that can ONLY be destroyed with a more historically correct mass raid.
an example,if we organised raids of 10 or more bombers the result would be the aircraft type the factory produces would be 17 perks to fly!,obviously we would need to playtest to find a good balance, and possibly some kind of random allocation of plane type to factory so as to avoid constant pounding of 1 type over and over.
Of course we could avoid perk costs entirely and just make it so the more you send the longer the 'down' time but i think the perk thing will give the 'shortage' feeling more.
To keep variety we could leave fuel and radar and ammo factories as they are,(same effect as in MA, ie reduces rebuild time),this would ensure jabo/fighter-bombers would still have targets to hit.(plus of course airbases)

it needs refineing i know but what do you think of the idea in principle?

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

[SKurj]

Vague similarities to my strat suggestions in the thread in my Signature


SKurj

[iceydee]

cool idea!

it would be even better if the perks we're
like, 1 extra perk / 10 mins of factory being
down...  

[hazed-]

vv skurj ive read your thread. this was merely an idea to encourage larger bomber formations and allow full salvo drops instead of pinpointing targets with single bombs etc.

the 1 MIN time limit means its no good going in seperately and so in order to kill said factory there MUST be 3+ bombers.(or whatever works)

this could be added to all the stuff you suggested, which incidently i mostly like.

[minus]

wtg hazed a real strategic  target!

now to find a way stimulate B 17 intercept instead of loging off when even 190f4 become a perk plane

[Kweassa]

Pretty simular to my strategic perk system idea in some aspects   generally, I think we'd all agree in implementing historic industrial/military targets in CT, whether they have something to do with "MA-ish" 'capture' or not.


 My idea was:

 'Strategic Perk' system.

* Put in historic targets of importance such as.. the East-end dock warehouses in London, Spitfire factories in Liverpool, ball-bearing plants near the Rhein.. etc, etc.

* These 'strategic targets' would be depicted as a complex of 50~60 buildings concentrated in about nine times larger area(3 times larger in length and width) than a 'city' depicted in MA.

* These strategic targets will be placed deep inside each country, so no plain ol' jabo attempt will get to them easily. The targets are concentrated in a large area, so the historic fashion of bombing - carpet bombing - will at last be introduced in AH.

* Destroying these targets would give out current pilots on-line free perk points.

 25% destroyed = 5 perks
 50% destroyed = 10 perks
 75% destroyed = 20 perks
 100% destroyed = 40 perks

* These are extremely large amount of perk points, and it is given out to entire pilots on-line when the bombing happens.

* Even if these points a re VERY high, anyone who has ever participated in a planned mission to strike enemy HQ would know that reaching there and doing meaningful damage despite radar and respawning enemies is definately not easy.

* Team effort is the key to do good damge in these targets. Sso, the rewards are also given out to the whole team. This would be only reasonable since the destruction of industrial targets is supposed to benefit the whole WAR, not just add points to few people's own.

* 5~40 perks given out to the whole other team would probably mean HOARDES of enemies instantly armed with 10 point perks planes within next few minutes. And this, I believe, is a worthy enough goal to set up a well-planned mission and participate in it, and a deadly enough reason for the defender to organize interceptors to stop this raid, what ever the cost.
 
* As an alternative, instead of giving out perks, we might consider TAKING AWAY perk points on destruction of strategic perk targets. Some people might still have enough to up 10 plane perkies, but most people would probably go broke. Indeed, 'rare but powerful' birds would stay that way.

 (but this alternative idea was rejected by people concerning the possibility of abuse - enemy logging off when bombing is about to commence)

[Fariz]

Strat shall be totally different. And no captures pls. -- having them will make a CT just another MA with historical planeset, which is terrible IMO.

Truth is that hitting one factory could hardly impart the outcome of the war. We all know that germany industry during all those bombing campaigns not only finished its existance, but rather evolved. Only in 1945 production decreased, but this was really more the result of lost territories than bombing.

From the other hand I agree, that pinpoing accurasy of buffs adds unrealistic feeling to CT bombing.

So, my sugestions:

Make salvo unchangable and set on max value for CT. Only delay may be changed. This way you can hit with pinpoint accuracy only first target.

Add score system -- each object is some ammount of scores, each plane is another. Set number of points for win a campaign. When campaign is won -- roll to next planeset.

Add stats, but not the total number of kills for pilot during campaign, but rather his longest killing streak in fighter and dammage streak in buff.

And bring us bloody 1.08 finally  

Fariz

[SKurj]

Allow Capture already!!!!  but make it such a tough proposition as to make it quite difficult!!  requiring team work and giving time restraints.

I can't see how requiring 30 troops all in the map room within X minutes for a small field could be anything like the MA!!  (40 troops for a med field, 50 for a large)
When I say X minutes I mean:  a time limit between the 1st troop entering map room and the 30th troop. 15 mins for example.

SKurj

[SKurj]

Oh yeah forgot to mention.  Do not put perk values on the base planeset for the current theatre.  That way for example if its an earlyish planeset, 109F4's spitV's etc will never cost a thing.  Only have the most advanced aircraft's perk values increase.

Kinda stupid having all planes perked don't ya think minus? +) use yer noggin

SKurj

[hazed-]

agreed skurj about having certain models always free.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by SKurj:
Allow Capture already!!!!  but make it such a tough proposition as to make it quite difficult!!  requiring team work and giving time restraints.
SKurj

Point system will encourage hits against objects, formation of buffs and cover. Make distant factories to bring more points, and you will see a deep strikes. In oposite the capture system will encourage hits against fields, low furballs and vulching against a spawning planes, which I am really fed up with in MA.

Fariz

[hazed-]

agreed fariz.I want CT to be what it was introduced for. Not another checkers game but a closer representation of what the war was like. The fluid front idea would be much better i think.After all no one in the war dropped 10 troops on an enemy airfield captured it and then instantly had unlimited aircraft did they?  
the only way i'd want base capture is if it had to be done by a large ground and air attack modeling as closely as possible the way the allies overran bases in WW2.
I would be really interested in only having a certain number of aircraft at a base.
squadrons had a certain number of planes and a percentage of these were servicable.The harder a squadron was hit the less they could send up until replacements arrived.
the only problem with this would be certain players wasting large numbers of planes at each base causing others to not be able to fly.perhaps if each player gets 10 aircraft of each type to fly, or depending on your performance you get allocated more to fly.

perhaps if we perked every plane but received an allowance of perks for each phase of the CT? this would mean surviving is more important.
I realise not all would like this sort of thing but I was of the impression the CT was put in for those of us that do want this sort of thing.
The guys that want fast furball capture etc have the MA, they cant have the CT too or we may as well have not bothered.

[Naso]

I think this is a great thread!!

I need more Strat, 'cause I'm a strat-addict, and the ideas exposed here (hazed, skurji, thank you) are great.

BTW, Let's think about a possible use for the increasing types and numbers of ground vehicles, some kind of territorial moviment must be possible, even something like a D Day recreation.

(What if in the D Day period we get lvt's to try a landing on Europe?)

But the base (only strat element capturable now), must be rended most realistic, say 50 or more assault troops need to be deployed in short time.

This mean you need a strike airborne or land or sea force of minimum 5 transport vehicle, plus support, protection, bombing and so on..

A big effort, good organization (a Dieppe operation?   ) needed, easy to defend elseway (kill a goon, attack gone).

You like it?

[Ripsnort]

I personally vote for capture, how else is the winner of any war declared?  Make it harder than main, ie. need cooperation, not just a B26 and a Goon.  Any strat added to the CT will up its popularity.

[Pepe]

While I'm eagerly awaiting Railway introduction, I would suggest this (I hope easy) things to modify strat in CT vs. MA's "one".  

I would allow base capture but with these special settings:

I would make ACK rebuilding times REALLY SHORT. I mean, you can destroy a position by means of air fire, but usually only crew get killed, not the gun itself, making easy to reman them. So killed ACK positions would be down only for 10/30 seconds unless barracks (ground crew) are destroyed.

Besides this, I would make Panzers & LVT's invulnerable at all to Ground Fire, xcept 88's. Open positions (like AA gunners) would be killed if exposed to light calibers.

I would add 88 positions to all fields, but it's usage as Antitank restricted to manned activity (i.e. no AI Antitank guns).

On another point, I will harden structures a lot to air dropped ordinance. I mean a LOT more. I would say some 20k to kill VH, 10k to kill Barracks (each Barrack structure), and 5k to kill each Hangar. I would maintain damage made by Panzers to ground targets.

I would maintain friendly firing FLAK. If it's not possible fine tune the effect, I rather like FLAK firing both friends & foes than selectively killing foes.

With this settings:

• Base capture would be really difficult (as it should be)
• Combined Ground/Air assaults would ease the task enormously.
• Single 30k Nuclear Raide...err...stratodw....<cough>...Solo flying buffs relying only in height to deliver super-accurate ordinance would be useless.
• Air Raids would only destroy an airfield if MASSIVE amount of ord is spent on them (as I think it should be)

I consider 2, 3 & 4 especially important because It would encourage 2 kind of actions:

a) Close Air Support role to protect Ground Forces.

b) Buff formations instead of the typical Solo Rider -> Probably use of escorts, as well.

I think this would be useful even with the low numbers normally seen in CT, although would be better with large amount of players.