For Chalenge

[5PointOh]

I'm in awe of this thread. I'm hoping most of you don't act like this in the real world.

[Changeup]

Without proof you/we know nothing. I for one will not condemn a man on mere accusations. I don't think anyone else should either. Chalenge isn't my buddy but what you guys are doing just doesn't seem right. You expect us to take your word for this just because you pull up some quotes and post some clever pictures about scorpions and F16s. I've learned over the years not to be so stupid and fall for this kind of internet trash.

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence....proof? pffft.  If it walks like a duck...come on dood...you know I love ya but some things you just gotta get right.

[Citabria]

FSO orders....

***Pls do not reply to this email***
 
Orders from *Sick Puppes*, and forwarded by me.  Any Q pls ask them. Their email is:
 
CiC is R. Paul Vause (Chalenge): r_vause@yahoo.com
 
Thx.
 
Warloc

This is from a close associate who was part of the Voss scam called 'TAS' .. and aye, Maverick .. he probably took the name of the squadron, but the scam was not done by the squad ...it was perpetrated by Voss.

> How much money did he get from who?

Before I answer your question, I'll put my cards face up on the table, just so you know where I'm coming from.
Back when Paul "Voss" Hinds began his Scam I had already been playing AW for several years. Voss was a member of an Air Warrior Squadron called the 13th TAS, a Squad that has since had links with other online flight sim's and is also currently running in Aces High.
I only mention that because TAS was the name of the new online game at the centre of the scam, and it is important to point out that they were in no way connected with it, as far as I know the other members of the Squad are all honourable men.

Also, I've never written any of this down before, so by way of disclaimer, I will say that I'm working entirely from memory, but this is in any case how I remember those events as they occurred.

I was one of the beta testers for TAS and although I was one of the lucky ones, the scam cost me money, and wasted a great deal of my time. Also, let's not forget that at the time this was the biggest, longest and most outrageous scam ever to hit the flight sim' community! Now you know where I'm coming from, I'll answer your question.

The person who lost the most was the main investor, Michael "Amok" Hobuss, who I believe was one of Voss's AW Squad mates. From my perspective as one of the beta testers, the deal appeared to be that Voss did all the programming and design while Amok covered the expenses and development
costs, including having a new powerful development machine delivered to Voss, setting up and maintaining the beta team, bulletin board, and all advertising and promotional costs.

Now before we go any farther, let's just look at that set-up. Voss had built credibility by claiming to have two doctorates, and vast relevant experience, he was not just exaggerating, he was deliberately giving false information to a squad mate, in order to
encourage him into parting with money and equipment for services he knew that he could not deliver.

He was never in the CIA, was never an F-16 pilot and he did not shoot down two enemy aircraft has he claimed, he did not own
a P-51, and has probably never even flown one, and he did not have two PhDs.
He fabricated that entire web of lies with the obvious motivation of securing investment for his own personal gain.

This scam lasted a long time, and was fed with screen shots that looked magnificent, but which were in fact only artwork, and the delays were blamed on all manner of incredible circumstances, a scorpion bite, brain tumour, even some mention of special missions with the CIA.

During that time a large number of people were involved on the beta site, and I was one of them. I've heard that some of the beta testers were also asked for front money, but I can't recall being asked, but I do remember that I didn't send money. So I can't confirm that.

The scam dragged on so long that someone eventually checked into his background, and his military service was the first thing to come under scrutiny.
When it transpired that he had not been an F-16 pilot in the
USAF, he invented the CIA story to explain why his name didn't appear in military records, but the wall was beginning to crumble.

As more of his lies were exposed, Michael Hobuss became suspicious, but no doubt found it very hard to believe that a squad mate would lie and steal from him, so at that point he was actually covering for him.

Then things began to move quickly, because his stories were stretching credibility to the limit. I know how long you need to remain in education to get a PhD, not to mention two! Computer skills that exceeded those of the best programmers of the day, USAF training, a flying career, converting to F-16s, recruitment by the CIA, a privately owned P-51, and this man appeared to have achieved more than most could manage in two life times.

Everyone was suspicious and people were asking awkward questions. Michael Hobuss was also getting nervous and began asking awkward questions too, and that's when Voss disappeared. The Scorpion bite! It was reported that Folk
even visited Voss in hospital, so perhaps that part was true, but it just went down hill from there.

Time dragged on, and after more revelations, and no further evidence that the game even existed, Voss was supposed to have a brain tumour resulting in the end of the game's development, but then Michael Hobuss blew the whistle!
He admitted he had been conned, and lost his hardware, the
expenses and development costs, and that there never was any game. Any beta testers who had fronted money to the project had lost it. I had spent a lot of time logging onto the beta test site and incurred telephone costs and wasted many hours of my own time, but I was one of the lucky ones!

How much did Michael Hobuss eventually lose, I can't say, but I'd guess the figure must have been at least several thousand, and to be fair I heard that he was able to recover some of it. I'm not even sure how much I lost, I certainly wasn't bothered about it because it would have only been a fraction of what I was spending on AW at that time  

This was a classic con! He fooled an investor, into parting with money and goods, by pretending to be something he wasn't.
The scam involved a large number of people, and left the community shaken, not because they had been taken in by a conman, but because they had been taken by one of their own,
some one many believed to be a squad mate and a friend.
For many it wasn't so much the money as the betrayal, that hurt that most.

Now I guess that all this could be forgotten if Voss had gone away, but he is still here, and he is attempting to rebuild his stock in the community.
Only recently he put out a call to the Aces High community to become involved in another project, that appeared to have all the hallmarks of another scam.
I was amazed when I saw it, and I thought to myself, "Here we
go again". Make no mistake, given the opportunity I believe he would do it again, it even looks very much as though he has actually tried already.
But fortunately, nobody took the bait. They never took the bait thanks to the efforts of those who remember, nobody has been allowed to forget.
The community has successfully protected itself by not allowing others to be taken in. That in my humble opinion is the morally correct, right and proper, thing to do.

When I see folk rehash the Voss stuff (as you call it) I'm always pleased to see it, because everytime it comes out I think that perhaps another few individuals have been made wise to him.
It also saddens me to see others defend him, because they are only helping him build a platform from which to strike again.

I haven't been able to give you exact figures, but does that answer your question?

Badz

-brought to you by Frank P. 'Gray Eagle' Williamson

[Nathan60]

Not really. You were an inactive member who chose to start a bunch of attention getting drama and got removed. You rang the dick hotline and got DrBone to show up for his multiple personality antics, shots are taken at a squad neither one of you were allowed in, and here we are.  

IN a thread designed to start a bunch of attention getting drama, where noted hotline has been answered by many, all taking shots.

[Guppy35]

Interesting to note in the quote of Badz the comment about someone trying to rebuild their stock in the community.

Funny the means that some folks will use to attempt to do that...

[DrBone1]

Well Bone.....I never held you or spek in high respect.......this is a game......I don't know you and don't really care who you are or how good you are in here....as far as a lot to learn........not from you.......am I a great stick in here.....no......am I a muppet....yes.....as far as standards....well, they didn't let you in so I guess they are pretty good.......

That's a nice ego boost from TheFew,Top Gun to the group with Shida it's nice being around better players than yourself ain't it?  

btw Don't pull that card on me I can recall more than 10xs how much you sucked up to me Spek and Joachim about how good we are and how much you wanted to train with us but its like I always said the older you are the harder it is which is why I never wasted my time.

I do like how cocky you have gotten though since joining up with them pretty funny and sad at the same time considering how low they have set the bar for great Players these days.
 

*this is a game*   Who got you saying that I am pretty sure everyone here knows its a game that's why I found it so funny you giving respect in it.

Which is why I called you on it brother.

[Arlo]

Interesting to note in the quote of Badz the comment about someone trying to rebuild their stock in the community.

Funny the means that some folks will use to attempt to do that...

I like the means where they work hard to rehabilitate themselves and it shows (no matter their relative skill or talent).

I don't like the means where they try to point out how there are others in the world who have character flaws as bad if not worse so leniency is warranted (especially if they expect additional consideration because of their skill or talent).

[Guppy35]

I like the means where they work hard to rehabilitate themselves and it shows (no matter their relative skill or talent).

I don't like the means where they try to point out how there are others in the world who have character flaws as bad if not worse so leniency is warranted (especially if they expect additional consideration because of their skill or talent).

So one horses backside attempting to use another horses backside to try and redeem themselves doesn't work for you either?

[Arlo]

So one horses backside attempting to use another horses backside to try and redeem themselves doesn't work for you either?

No, sir.

[Citabria]

actually I had no idea who "Chalenge" was when I was critiquing his stick figure last week. but he certainly enjoyed insulting me in threads I didn't even post in. I became interested in who he was based on the interaction I had with him in that topic.

"R Paul Vause" is the person I was arguing with in the stick figure thread.

as it turns out you have aRe Paul Vause to thank for the finished map.

how?

he "Chalenged" me to post some work.

I posted it its uploaded you can tear it apart for being bad and hate it or if you enjoy it good I hope the work is well recieved but if its not or not even used as an MA oh well thats life.

[Citabria]

but haters gotta hate. its the way of things.

What you probably have come to understand is that regular people hate success, particularly the success of somebody who is their better or superior.  These types of people are usually incapable of being subordinate to anyone, and instead of creating a situation where you could probably have helped them improve their abilities, they would rather just attack over some nit picky ridiculous non issue as they fear that they may not be able to actually improve themselves, and it's simpler to try and drag their betters down to their level instead.

In any case, don't let the idiots on the BBS get you angry, I realize that can be tough, very tough at times, but you figured that out on your own by the looks of it and have just let the rest of the BS pass by.  I worked for some celebs in Hollywood and elsewhere with the private military company I worked with after I did some tours in the mid east, and after that experience it really opened up my eyes to how much people love to attack those that have been more successful than themselves.  It bothered every one of them, including some very tough guys like Bruce Willis, who just happened to be actors, but are otherwise pretty solidly mentally and physically tough people.  If it can get to them, don't feel badly about it getting to you, but also remember that the reason it is occurring at all is that you're better than them, and take heart.

[Slash27]

I do like how cocky you have gotten though since joining up with them pretty funny and sad at the same time considering how low they have set the bar for great Players these days.
 

Canspec is actually a far from cocky as it gets. Very reserved, easy going, and a hell of a lot of fun to be around. I would take him being on the badside of an unhinged little punk as an endorsement of his good character.

[Citabria]

the most delicious irony of it all?

VOSS getting conned by Full Sail out all his money.

[Canspec]

That's a nice ego boost from TheFew,Top Gun to the group with Shida it's nice being around better players than yourself ain't it?  

btw Don't pull that card on me I can recall more than 10xs how much you sucked up to me Spek and Joachim about how good we are and how much you wanted to train with us but its like I always said the older you are the harder it is which is why I never wasted my time.

I do like how cocky you have gotten though since joining up with them pretty funny and sad at the same time considering how low they have set the bar for great Players these days.
 

*this is a game*   Who got you saying that I am pretty sure everyone here knows its a game that's why I found it so funny you giving respect in it.

Which is why I called you on it brother.

 .....sad...but typical.....and Im not your brother......

[Bear76]

So one horses backside attempting to use another horses backside to try and redeem themselves doesn't work for you either?

I had a horse once..................







Hey Dan