Hurricane surprise

[artik]

When I signed to BoB scenario I thought of what I would like to fly.

Based on plane only, my 1st obvious choice was 109E - it is an awesome plane, great climb, good speed, good ammo, good energy, good dive. But I didn't really wanted to fly on LW side.

So of course I registered for RAF.

The Spitfire was obvious choice for me: turns well and faster than 109... Really nice plane. But I waited to register hoping to bring my squadron to BoB, but this didn't work. All spitfire spots were taken, so I registered as a Hurricane pilot.

To be honest, I felt like I'm going to fly outclassed plane that has bad firepower, does not have speed or climb advantage and barely faster than Ju-88, so besides being better turner that 109 it had no real advantage and I felt a little bit screwed.

Moreover, I mostly like and know B&Z and vertical fighting, so Hurricane was my last choice.


Than, I did some training vs 109 and found it was not that hard. Yes, 109 was faster but finally I had much harder time to fight Hurri vs Hurri then Hurri vs 109. I could use some of my advantages. So when I started first BoB frame I was quite confident that I can manage relatively well.

Now when I actually started fighting I found that in big squadron vs squadron fights being good turner was actually not that bad. It was quite easy to handle 109s. If they start turning with you - you get them, if they BnZ you, working as a team you find that 109 loose their advantage quite fast giving Hurricanes good opportunities to fight back even if you start in disadvantage. And because good energy fighting requires lots of discipline, once the dogfight starts I found 109s starting loosing the precious energy very fast and become an easy pray. So basically they can either die or run away using deep dive (for good).

So I had found myself not only confident in fighting 109 but also waiting for them to come  

So if I choose a ride today, I start to understand that actually the specific performance details of aircraft do not really that matter in a team work. And being on the RAF side it is great. More than that, because you don't worry about fuel, there are many squadrons in the sky that can actually help each other, being an effective force multiplying factor.

Finally I really prefer to fly Hurricanes over 109. Probably the Spitfire is little bit more glamorous ride, but in fact Hurricane does its job very well (if not better)

[SirNuke]

based on AH performance the spitfire would have been discontinued after the mark I  

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353527.0.html

the hurricane is very docile, resistant, enjoys a better over the nose view, and the machine guns are more concentrated, the hits less spread out.

[ROC]

So if I choose a ride today, I start to understand that actually the specific performance details of aircraft do not really that matter in a team work.

You have stumbled on the very foundation of a Scenario.  All graphs, performance charts, and statistics are tossed completely out the window when faced with the very real fact that one has to succeed with what they have regardless of what the engineers told you the equipment was capable of.  Learn what the resources you have actually will do, and focus less on what one hopes or thinks they will do.  This will always cause the unexpected to happen.  The success of the engagement is determined by how the team performs with what they have.  Anyone can succeed when the conditions favor them and they are in their comfort zone.  Real rewards happen when the opposite is the case, and the desire to succeed overcomes the desire for comfort.  Remember that your opposition is reading the same books that your team is reading, and know what the planes should do.  Toss the book, do something else.  Try something new.  Break out of the routine.  The worst pilot in the best plane has no chance against the best pilot in the worst plane.  It's about you, and your team, and the creative power of the human mind and spirit, it's never about the spec book.  I've said, and gotten grief, for many years for repeating the same statement when faced with complaints about poor match ups.  It's never about the plane, it's never about the numbers, it's always about what you do with what you have.  Glad you got here, it's a liberating place to be 

There is no way to recreate what the real life pilots had to endure and overcome, but when it comes to a game, this is as close as it gets.

Well played and well written.  Thank you for sharing.

[Wiley]

So if I choose a ride today, I start to understand that actually the specific performance details of aircraft do not really that matter in a team work.

Bigtime.  There are exceptions occasionally, I still feel in Pacific scenarios the Japanese have a pretty tough row to hoe air to air, but they generally still manage to nail their ground targets.

Scenarios allow teamwork to play a much larger role in success, and also highlight certain capabilities that aren't as critical in the MA's.  In my experience, generally speaking speed is far more important in most scenarios than turning capability in most matchups.

Great writeup, glad you had fun.

Wiley.

[leitwolf]

[..]
So if I choose a ride today, I start to understand that actually the specific performance details of aircraft do not really that matter in a team work. And being on the RAF side it is great. More than that, because you don't worry about fuel, there are many squadrons in the sky that can actually help each other, being an effective force multiplying factor.
[..]

This is why scenario folks always smile when people get angry about the performance of the 190A8 in the main arena.
They start haggling about 5mph that might be missing here or there.

But! Put it into the environment it was made for and everything falls into place and the beast transforms .. and you cant help but start an uncontrollable smurk
Same thing with the Hurri Mk I .. it is a good ship when put in proper context.

There are still two frames for this year's BoB scenario - and lots of walkon vacations... try this folks!

[Brooke]

This is why scenario folks always smile when people get angry about the performance of the 190A8 in the main arena.

Absolutely.  I remember Enemy Coast Ahead, with Spit 9's and Typhoons vs. 109G's and 190A's.  I thought that the 190A's would be unpopular and that the Spit 9's would outclass them, so I signed up for 190A's.  (I like to fly the underdog plane.)

Spit 9's of course were still good planes, but the 190A-5 was, in my opinion, a superior plane in that more-realistic Scenario setting.  The Typhoons seemed more difficult than the Spit 9's in that environment.

[SIK1]

Bigtime.  There are exceptions occasionally, I still feel in Pacific scenarios the Japanese have a pretty tough row to hoe air to air, but they generally still manage to nail their ground targets.

Scenarios allow teamwork to play a much larger role in success, and also highlight certain capabilities that aren't as critical in the MA's.  In my experience, generally speaking speed is far more important in most scenarios than turning capability in most matchups.

Great writeup, glad you had fun.

Wiley.

Actually the A6M5b is a good fight for the A-hog, and the Ki-84 can easily own an A-hog when flown properly. Yes the hog has the speed advantage but that doesn't leave the hog many options if it doesn't have the bounce.

[Tank-Ace]

SIK, the issue is that the faster aircraft dictates the fight. Flying for the japanese, you cannot force a fight when you have the advantage, and you cannot escape one when you don't.

The last scenario revolving heavily around shooting down high-altitude bombers didn't help matters either. Campaigns where one side pretty much just has to bomb static ground structures are fairly predictable; the bombers will get through.

[Karnak]

Absolutely.  I remember Enemy Coast Ahead, with Spit 9's and Typhoons vs. 109G's and 190A's.  I thought that the 190A's would be unpopular and that the Spit 9's would outclass them, so I signed up for 190A's.  (I like to fly the underdog plane.)

Spit 9's of course were still good planes, but the 190A-5 was, in my opinion, a superior plane in that more-realistic Scenario setting.  The Typhoons seemed more difficult than the Spit 9's in that environment.

I expect you'd have found the Spitfire LF.Mk IX a much nastier customer. The Spitfire Mk IX in AH is the earliest and least potent of Mk IXs, and the one with the lowest production totals.

[Brooke]

I expect you'd have found the Spitfire LF.Mk IX a much nastier customer. The Spitfire Mk IX in AH is the earliest and least potent of Mk IXs, and the one with the lowest production totals.

The main thing was the speed (as the IX in AH does everything else really well, perhaps except for number of cannon rounds and thus when it runs out of cannon).  If the LF. Mk IX was faster, then it would have been a harder plane to deal with.

[Karnak]

The main thing was the speed (as the IX in AH does everything else really well, perhaps except for number of cannon rounds and thus when it runs out of cannon).  If the LF. Mk IX was faster, then it would have been a harder plane to deal with.

We have it in AH already.  It is called a Mk XVI here.  If you put full span wings on it then it drops a few MPH, but otherwise it is the same.

In fact, the Mk VIII speed chart would be very much the same as the LF.Mk IX's.

or

Read my Clarifications about the Spitfire Mk IX and XVI thread for explanations, if you haven't already.

[Brooke]

20 mph faster would have made a significant difference.

[B3YT]

I fly the Hurricane MKIa pretty much exclusively in the LWA . Landed  a few kills monday and caused quite a few head aches to the red guys . I love it .

[Bruv119]

don't under estimate that stable gun platform and no threat of entering the arse backwards stall.  

Thrila and nuke both did amazingly well in the Hurricane, had they been in a spit I doubt they would have had the same result.   Everyone is different, all the planes are too and ROC is 100% correct in saying that in a Scenario the text books and the norms of the MA go out of the window.   This is what makes them incredibly enjoyable for me.  

See you on Saturday Artik!

 

[Wiley]

Actually the A6M5b is a good fight for the A-hog, and the Ki-84 can easily own an A-hog when flown properly. Yes the hog has the speed advantage but that doesn't leave the hog many options if it doesn't have the bounce.

I should've been more specific, as what you say is correct.  I was thinking more the earlier scenarios with the lower end zekes vs the F4F's and soforth.

Wiley.