Author Topic: Double Trouble!!  (Read 2124 times)

Offline earl1937

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Double Trouble!!
« on: September 23, 2013, 01:25:27 PM »
 :airplane: One of the great aircraft during the "prop" age was the North American F-82 "Twin-Mustang", designed and developed during WW2, but for the want of engines, never actually saw service during the big war. The production line didn't start running until 1946, with the U.S. seeing the "cold" war coming, needed a long range fighter to escort B-29's and B-36's over vast distances to and from the target areas.
In the postwar era, Strategic Air Command used the planes as a long-range escort fighter. Radar-equipped F-82s were used extensively by the Air Defense Command as replacements for the Northrop P-61 Black Widow as all-weather day/night interceptors. During the Korean War, Japan-based F-82s were among the first USAF aircraft to operate over Korea. The first three North Korean aircraft destroyed by U.S. forces were shot down by F-82s, the first being a North-Korean Yak-11 downed over Gimpo Airfield by the USAF 68th Fighter Squadron.
On 27 February 1947, P-82B 44-65168, named Betty Jo and flown by Colonel Robert E. Thacker, made history when it flew nonstop from Hawaii to New York without refueling, a distance of 5,051 mi (8,129 km) in 14 hr 32 min. It averaged 347.5 miles per hour (559.2 km/h). This flight tested the P-82's range. The aircraft carried a full internal fuel tank of 576 US gallons (2,180 l; 480 imp gal), augmented by four 310 US gal (1,173 l; 258 imp gal) tanks for a total of 1,816 US gal (6,874 l; 1,512 imp gal). Also, Colonel Thacker forgot to drop three of his external tanks when their fuel was expended, landing with them in New York.
"Betty Jo" taking off on historic flight to New York", (Note C-47, B-25 and C-54 in background).

During World War II, the P-51 Mustang had escorted Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and Consolidated B-24 Liberator bombers from bases in England and Southern Italy to targets throughout Nazi-occupied Europe. However, the Cold War brought on the challenge of possible B-29, Boeing B-50 or Convair B-36 bomber missions into the Soviet Union. The sheer size of the Soviet Union dictated that a bombing mission would be a 12-hour affair there and back from bases in Europe or Alaska, most of it over Soviet territory. Also the weather, which was bad enough in Western Europe, would make bombing missions impossible over the Soviet Union between October and May. With no long-range jet fighters yet available to perform escort missions for the strategic bomber force, the mission of the 27th FEW was to fly these long-range missions with their F-82Es.
  A flight of F-82E's, radar equipped.
The F-82E had a range of over 1,400 mi (2,300 km), which meant that with external fuel tanks it could fly from London to Moscow, loiter for 30 minutes over the target, and return, the only American fighter which could do so. It also had an operational ceiling of 40,000 feet (12,200 m), where it could stay close to the bombers it was designed to protect. The first production F-82Es reached the 27th in early 1948, and almost immediately the group was deployed to McChord AFB, Washington, in June, where its squadrons stood on alert on a secondary air defense mission due to heightened tensions over the Berlin Airlift. It was also believed that the 27th would launch an escort mission, presumably to the Soviet Union, if conflict broke out in Europe. From McChord, the group flew its Twin Mustangs on weather reconnaissance missions over the northwest Pacific, but problems were encountered with their fuel tanks. Decommissioned F-61 Black Widow external tanks were found at Hamilton AFB, California, which could be modified for the F-82; fitted on the pylons of the Twin Mustang, these solved the problem. With a reduction in tension, the 27th returned to its home base in Nebraska during September, where the unit settled down to transition flying with their aircraft.
The Twin Mustang had a very short operational life. About two years after its introduction to SAC, the F-82E was phased out of service in favor of the jet-powered F-84 Thunderjet for bomber escort duties beginning in 1950. Some were sent to Korea for combat, others were sent to Alaska, but most were declared surplus and were being sent to storage and ultimately reclamation in 1951. Air Defense Command's F-82Fs began to be replaced by F-94 Starfires in 1950, and by early 1951, with most being sent to the smelters, although a few Twin Mustangs remaining in ADC towing aerial targets. In the Pacific, the F-82Gs in combat were also replaced by the F-94 in late 1951 and early 1952, with the survivors being sent to Alaska after being modified to the F-82H configuration in Japan for cold-weather use.
With a max speed of the "G" of 482MPH and a range of 2350 miles, it was truly a great "fill in" aircraft. It carried 6, M2 machine guns and could carry 25, 5 inch rockets or 4,000 lbs of bombs.
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Offline Nath[BDP]

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 01:45:38 PM »
Must have been weird to handle with the pilot off-center like that? 
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Offline earl1937

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 06:18:25 PM »
Must have been weird to handle with the pilot off-center like that? 
:airplane: Not really, the main gear was spread wide enough that it was actually easier to land in a x-wind than the regular 51K! The reason I called it "Double Trouble" is with 2 engines, of course, you have 2 maintenance problems instead of one!
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Offline MK-84

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 08:14:08 PM »
what about maneuvers inflight?  Anything a pilot would have to remind himself of or do differently because he is offset quite a bit from the center? And how were the guns converged?

Offline Bodhi

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 08:34:14 PM »
The have very little in common with the Mustang.  Very neat aircraft though.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 02:37:28 PM »
The have very little in common with the Mustang.  Very neat aircraft though.
Fuselages, vertical stabilizer, wings, engines, landing gear, canopies, props.......?



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Offline earl1937

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 04:20:01 PM »
Fuselages, vertical stabilizer, wings, engines, landing gear, canopies, props.......?
:airplane: Actually, they took 2 "H" model fuseledge and added 47 inches behind the two cockpits, added, if memory serves 11 inches in length and 4 inches in height to the dorsal fin, for better single engine handling. All 6 of the M2's were "center" wing mounted, therefore they were much more accurate and you could load the 'trees" with 25, 5 inch rockets.
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Offline earl1937

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 04:34:47 PM »
what about maneuvers inflight?  Anything a pilot would have to remind himself of or do differently because he is offset quite a bit from the center? And how were the guns converged?
:airplane: You really didn't notice the "other" side, unless you looked at it. Aerobatics were good to excellent and with the addition of slightly wider flap area, would turn on a dime under 200IAS. Climb like a rocket ship and would, at 45 inches MP, hold a 365MPH IAS at level cruise at 15,000 feet. I only managed to get 6.2 hours in the E model and was advised not to spin the aircraft on purpose. Takeoff and departure stalls were a "hoot", nose straight up in the air and you had no idea which way it was going to break, but most of the time to the left. You could do loops from cruise all day long if you like, because it recovered back to cruise quickly. If you wanted to loop from say 15,000 to 19,000 feet, and back to 15,000, usually was a 3.5 G maneuver, you had to reduce power on the down side or you would quickly get to VNE of 489IAS. Rolls were a dream! 4 point rolls were sharp and precise  because of the two rudders, were easier than any single engine I flew. What you had to be careful about was ground handling, as you had a much wider wingspan than the D or K models. The "follow me" jeep never wanted to drive over 10MPH and you could taxi this thing at 30MPH if you wanted to.
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline Randy1

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 05:23:01 PM »
Earl were they counter rotating engines like the P38?

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 06:14:44 PM »
:airplane: Actually, they took 2 "H" model fuseledge and added 47 inches behind the two cockpits, added, if memory serves 11 inches in length and 4 inches in height to the dorsal fin, for better single engine handling. All 6 of the M2's were "center" wing mounted, therefore they were much more accurate and you could load the 'trees" with 25, 5 inch rockets.

Incorrect. This is an entirely new aircraft, and not just an extended P-51 with two fuselages.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 08:23:43 PM »
Incorrect. This is an entirely new aircraft, and not just an extended P-51 with two fuselages.

No, it is correct.  When Wiki says "it was an entirely new design", it is referring to the P-51H, which is a new design over previous P-51 models (in that the airframe, propulsion, and subsystems were redesigned, according to America's Hundred Thousand, by Dean).  The F-82 was two P-51H's put together, but then of course there were a lot of design mods and tweaks to do to make that work.  I don't think that the F-82 was a new design from scratch.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 11:35:59 PM »
I think that it's very cool that Earl flew one.  That must have been great fun! <S>

Offline Bodhi

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2013, 11:06:19 AM »
:airplane: Actually, they took 2 "H" model fuseledge and added 47 inches behind the two cockpits, added, if memory serves 11 inches in length and 4 inches in height to the dorsal fin, for better single engine handling. All 6 of the M2's were "center" wing mounted, therefore they were much more accurate and you could load the 'trees" with 25, 5 inch rockets.

Earl,
The basis for the design is a lengthened H fuselage, but the reality of building a different aircraft with new points of fatigue necessitated that they redesign the entirety of the fuselage.  I was heavily involved in the former CAF P-82 acquisition and restoration before the Air Force stole the aircraft and took it to Dayton.  The differences are one of the major reasons that these aircraft are so rare.  Almost nothing that goes on a Mustang fits on a Twin Mustang short of GFE and cockpit items.
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2013, 11:07:36 AM »
Fuselages, vertical stabilizer, wings, engines, landing gear, canopies, props.......?

Every one of those items is different.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: Double Trouble!!
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2013, 11:17:34 AM »
Yep, Brooke is basically correct.

Splitting hairs, Twin Mustang was developed using two XF-51F (the light weight experimental P-51 which became the P-51H production aircraft) fuselages which were lengthened by 57" for additional fuel tanks/other equipment, same goes for the outer wing panels.

As for the guns, the first XP-82 had M2 guns but second prototype already had M3s and thus all the production aircraft were armed with M3s as well.

Source: Squadron Signal's Twin Mustang book


:airplane: You really didn't notice the "other" side, unless you looked at it. Aerobatics were good to excellent and with the addition of slightly wider flap area, would turn on a dime under 200IAS. Climb like a rocket ship and would, at 45 inches MP, hold a 365MPH IAS at level cruise at 15,000 feet. I only managed to get 6.2 hours in the E model and was advised not to spin the aircraft on purpose. Takeoff and departure stalls were a "hoot", nose straight up in the air and you had no idea which way it was going to break, but most of the time to the left. You could do loops from cruise all day long if you like, because it recovered back to cruise quickly. If you wanted to loop from say 15,000 to 19,000 feet, and back to 15,000, usually was a 3.5 G maneuver, you had to reduce power on the down side or you would quickly get to VNE of 489IAS. Rolls were a dream! 4 point rolls were sharp and precise  because of the two rudders, were easier than any single engine I flew. What you had to be careful about was ground handling, as you had a much wider wingspan than the D or K models. The "follow me" jeep never wanted to drive over 10MPH and you could taxi this thing at 30MPH if you wanted to.

Very very cool Earl! Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Twin Mustang was one of those aircraft that I was really fascinated with when I learned about its existence when I was 10 years or so old. :) It really left an impression on my mind at the time. :)

I'm really interested in hearing how did you get to fly it. Ie. how were those flights related to your service/training at the time?

Nice cut-away:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 11:33:04 AM by Wmaker »
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