Author Topic: Explain SLI to me.  (Read 3440 times)

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2013, 06:47:10 AM »
MOV based surge protectors are only good for X amount of surges.  They all stop protecting from surges after they hit their limit.  If your surge protector does not have an indicator showing the device is no longer protecting, then you might as well only have a power strip, because that is what they become after they have taken the maximum hits they can take.

A UPS takes it to another stage, which will continue to protect for the life of the UPS.

A UPS can be a far cheaper, long term, investment.  It will depend on the quality of power in your area.  If you live in a large apartment complex or condominium building. then using something is only smart, as the power in those complexes will always be dirty.

We are in an apartment right now, and the power is absolutely filthy.  I installed power line filters for every electronic device we have.  The computers get a UPS.  Power line filters are a step above surge protectors as they continuously remove noise from the power.  The difference between active and passive filtering.  Virtually all surge protectors are passive devices.

While active surge protectors and filters cost more, they last significantly longer than a passive surge protector will.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2013, 07:34:34 AM »
You're stretching the cost of a UPS a bit there Ripley. I bought two UPS devices for system for less than I paid for a single graphics card. You will never be able to buy an entire system for that same price. Furthermore, an adequate surge protector will cost you half of the price of a single UPS, and the UPS provides surge protection also!

An UPS large enough to actually do something will cost you an arm and a leg. I see that UPS prices have come down lately, basic setup is not too much but still warrant the question of ever getting return for the money. The cheapest UPS:es do not do proper power filtering for example anyway so you're still not protected against the most detrimental of power problems, phase changes and fluctuating AC frequencies (if such exists, in Finland the grid is pretty much rock solid. All power that we import from Russia for example goes through a complete AC-DC-AC cycle).

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Then you speak about a PSU preventing power cycling? Sorry, but that's just untrue. Also, why are you concentrating on surges? The most common issue is sags. Sags damage equipment slowly over time. You claim that you have never known of a PC failure because of electricity, yet there are thousands cited via Google including many that were not saved by surge protection.

Reading comprehension please! I said the motherboard protects itself from switching back on immediately after a power cut. For every case of failure on Google you will find 100 000 of his neighbours who did not get a failure from the same power problem. Your searches are just not worth anything in this discussion. It's like doing Google searches from Toyota owners forum to 'prove' the statistics are wrong and Toyotas are in reality very unreliable :)

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The one instance I cited where I lost a motherboard came through across the network line, not through the UPS. On the system that lost the UPS it was battery failure, and the motherboard survived.

How do you know the battery didn't fail on its own? How do you know your motherboard died not because of a manufacturing fault but something that came from the network? :)

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So the only thing your posts have accomplished is demonstrated your lack of knowledge concerning electricity, and your inability to understand the written word.

Hah gimme a break! Again: 99% of AH user base for SURE never bought an UPS in their lives and they continue to play without problems. Why is that? Don't you think they'd be better off investing to a new high-end display card instead of buying the UPS they'll most likely never even need?

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Just last February I recall reading a story where a German forensic team had determined the precise moment a recording had been made because of the electric hum from appliances in nearby sockets. So, I know your electric grid suffers the same issues as anyone else. The only thing saving you so far has been the fact that lightning storms are less frequent. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Yes you go buy a house full of UPS:s to protect your electronics which will be obsolete in 2 years anyway. I'll take my chances and use that money to buy new stuff instead :D I can't recall when was the last time any electronic device would die on me. Light bulbs have burned I give you that. You reckon I should run them through UPS? :D We still have our wide screen TV which we bought when we got married 14 years ago, now stored in the kids room. Works flawlessly - never been surge protected and it has been plugged in during thunderstorms too.

Oh, and I live in Finland not in Germany.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 08:04:03 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2013, 05:15:51 PM »
Ripley, it would be just too much of a coincidence to have a powerful surge have the affect it did and then choose to attribute the loses to something else.

I forgot you just like to argue, despite all the evidence proving you are on the wrong side of the argument.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2013, 10:07:50 PM »
Ripley, it would be just too much of a coincidence to have a powerful surge have the affect it did and then choose to attribute the loses to something else.

I forgot you just like to argue, despite all the evidence proving you are on the wrong side of the argument.

The evidence is against you here I'm sorry. Device breakages due to power problems are extremely rare and the power companies are responsible for any damages a power out caused by their scheduled work causes for example. Last time our house had a scheduled power out the power company sent a notice about this actually. Lightning strikes they can't cover but home insurance covers damages caused by forces of nature. Insurance companies actually recommend to leave even modems plugged in during thunder to avoid a possible electric arch from sockets if the phone line takes a direct hit. They prefer the modem burning instead of the rest of the house.

So you had this powerful surge that broke stuff despite the UPS you had. What was the net effect in the end? How many times in your lifetime have you experienced a surge like that? Once? Twice? It's almost like reinforcing your house roof for the chance of a meteorite hit.

I haven't seen any private person buy an UPS to their home so far. Even at office use they're extremely rare and usually used only with servers.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 10:13:59 PM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2013, 06:20:04 AM »
We have sufficient storm activities here to cause regular momentary power outages, especially during Spring when we get a high number of hail storms.  Then during the fall, we get a very high number of thunderstorms.

The number of times my UPS and power filters have saved equipment in our home is significant.  I have had neighbors lose a significant amount of hardware ranging from alarm clocks to televisions (lots of those) to computers every year.

What may be true for your area of the world, may not be true for another area.  Making a blanket statement that no one needs a UPS or power line filters is quite incorrect.  In your very narrow scope, it may be quite appropriate for you to not need a filter or UPS.  However, that scope may not apply to the rest of the world.

In the U.S., power companies are not responsible for any damage done when they turn on the power, after repairs are made.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2013, 10:35:01 AM »
We have sufficient storm activities here to cause regular momentary power outages, especially during Spring when we get a high number of hail storms.  Then during the fall, we get a very high number of thunderstorms.

The number of times my UPS and power filters have saved equipment in our home is significant.  I have had neighbors lose a significant amount of hardware ranging from alarm clocks to televisions (lots of those) to computers every year.

What may be true for your area of the world, may not be true for another area.  Making a blanket statement that no one needs a UPS or power line filters is quite incorrect.  In your very narrow scope, it may be quite appropriate for you to not need a filter or UPS.  However, that scope may not apply to the rest of the world.

In the U.S., power companies are not responsible for any damage done when they turn on the power, after repairs are made.

Perhaps in your area things are bad then, can't tell. Somehow I just can't imagine people buying UPS:s in masses even at your neighborhood. Nowadays electronics are almost a disposable commodity with a relatively short lifespan (before it's outdated). That's why I wouldn't invest a dime protecting the hardware that I would most likely want to upgrade soon anyway. Probably if I would suffer from burned hardware every 12-16 months I would invest into a quality UPS.

Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
Uhmm, I do not replace electronics for years.  My personal computer gets an update once every five years, or so.  Our televisions are going on four and five years old and I have no intention of replacing them.

I do not consider $2,000.00+ (U.S. dollars) products to be "commodity" items.  A $300.00 power line filter, which lasts for about ten years, is a pretty good investment for us.

Weather is the issue here.  High winds, softball size hail, and severe thunderstorms will tax any electric grid.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2013, 02:17:20 PM »
Uhmm, I do not replace electronics for years.  My personal computer gets an update once every five years, or so.  Our televisions are going on four and five years old and I have no intention of replacing them.

I do not consider $2,000.00+ (U.S. dollars) products to be "commodity" items.  A $300.00 power line filter, which lasts for about ten years, is a pretty good investment for us.

Weather is the issue here.  High winds, softball size hail, and severe thunderstorms will tax any electric grid.

Down here they're actively digging all electric lines under ground to prevent failures from snow, falling trees etc. I wouldn't consider a 2000 dollar computer to be 'commodity' either if it would blow totally. Maybe I just can't imagine your conditions down here. I could never imagine anyone would have any need for an UPS at home use.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2013, 02:25:37 PM »
i once lived in an apartment that was subject to brown outs and surges any time wind and/or rain hit. blew 1 power supply and almost fried another pc before i put a cheap apc 1500va ups in line. put my computer, modem, tv and phone on the ups. never had another computer problem in that apartment.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2013, 04:08:20 PM »
Down here they're actively digging all electric lines under ground to prevent failures from snow, falling trees etc. I wouldn't consider a 2000 dollar computer to be 'commodity' either if it would blow totally. Maybe I just can't imagine your conditions down here. I could never imagine anyone would have any need for an UPS at home use.

It's not just the computer.  The televisions cost more.

Underground power lines do not help that much.  It is the power transformers, which are exposed to the weather, that take the beating and cause problems. 

I only have a UPS on the computers.  You know how long it takes for Linux to fsck 16TB of drive storage?!?!?  Or having to start a render all over again, that was going to take a couple of weeks to do anyway?!?!!?  If I can get those systems down cleanly, I can start where the render left off and I can get the servers back online in minutes, rather than hours.

I use active line filtration on the rest of the expensive gear.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2013, 09:55:54 PM »
It's not just the computer.  The televisions cost more.

Underground power lines do not help that much.  It is the power transformers, which are exposed to the weather, that take the beating and cause problems. 

I only have a UPS on the computers.  You know how long it takes for Linux to fsck 16TB of drive storage?!?!?  Or having to start a render all over again, that was going to take a couple of weeks to do anyway?!?!!?  If I can get those systems down cleanly, I can start where the render left off and I can get the servers back online in minutes, rather than hours.

I use active line filtration on the rest of the expensive gear.

Most home users do not have render farms running though ;)

TVs and stuff do not worry me, I can get a far better new tv now for the insurance money compared to the time when I bought it. I guess you have to 'insure' your hardware yourself with UPS if you lack coverage for nature phenomenon.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2013, 06:31:33 AM »
Not worth it to eat the increased insurance premiums from filing claims, and to cover the deductible.  Let's see, for the last 5 years I would have, potentially, been out of pocket an additional $2,000.00 in deductibles and eating a 15% increase in my insurance rates, which never goes back down.

Absolutely not worth it.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2013, 11:06:46 AM »
Not worth it to eat the increased insurance premiums from filing claims, and to cover the deductible.  Let's see, for the last 5 years I would have, potentially, been out of pocket an additional $2,000.00 in deductibles and eating a 15% increase in my insurance rates, which never goes back down.

Absolutely not worth it.

I have a full coverage with my house insurance so it comes with the package. Not that I've ever needed it though. If my TV has survived 14 years with no surge protectors or UPSes I doubt an UPS would extend its life any further. It's going for recycle now anyway.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2013, 01:32:41 AM »
The next time you see the repair/maintenance crew out at the local cell tower you should go by and ask them for a look at the batteries. VTT says that, yes, even Finland has an average of 11 hours of downtime per household, so it's just a matter of time.

Oh, and if your system is engaged in writing data to the HDD when that power fails, your surge protector will not help, and your entire system could very well be lost.

But keep the faith!

 :aok
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Explain SLI to me.
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2013, 02:37:20 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 06:36:42 AM by Skuzzy »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone