Der Gabelschwanz Teufel

[Widewing]

No question about it, was truly a great fighter, which arrived to late for the big war, but I believe the F-82 could give it all it wanted in a one on one!

Given equal pilots, same altitude, I think the P-82 (lets compare the P-82E) would be over-matched. The F7F-3 had 5,000 hp on tap (WEP), meaning the P-82 was down more that 1,200 hp. Both could reach 460 mph at 21,000 feet, but the F7F-3 would get to that altitude almost 2 minutes sooner. The F7F-3 had a lower wing loading, and stalled almost 35 mph slower than the Twin Mustang. This more than hints that in any kind of maneuver fight, the F7F-3 will dominate. Like the F6F, the Tigercat was designed to have docile handling around the boat. The F7F-3 had a far larger vertical stab (hydraulically boosted) than the F7F-1, which resulted in excellent control at low speeds, but a bit over-sensitive at high speed. During the Joint fighter conference, and F7F-1 was found to easily match the P-38L in turn radius.

The de Havilland Hornet F.3 is a closer match for the F7F-3. A bit faster than the F7F-3, it doesn't climb or accelerate quite as good below 15,000 feet The Hornet's wing loading is substantially greater than that of the F7F-3 (at standard fighter combat weight). The F7F-3 has around 95 square feet more wing area than the Hornet. Thus, the edge in maneuverability probably goes to the Tigercat.

Down low, the F7F-3 is a pure monster. 395 mph at sea level and well over 5,000 fpm climb rate...  Chris Fahey, one of the Plane's of Fame pilots discussed the F7F with me. His comments were... "The F7F is faster than both (F8F and P-51D), certainly can't out-dogfight a Bearcat, and I don't think it would best a Mustang if it stayed in a turning fight too long. But it owns the vertical, can leave (the P-51) at will.. So I think the advantages outweigh the turn performance. Of the three, the Bearcat is what I'd choose." Chris stated that he was not aware of any prop fighter that could beat the F8F in a genuine dogfight. Chris has more than two thousand hours in F-16s. He has many hours in the F6F-5, P-38J and F8F. He also flies the F-86 and MiG-15.

Milo, are there any flyable Hornets or Sea Hornets anywhere these days? It would be a shame if there are none....

Chris Fahey and son in PoF P-38J.



Chris doing the maintenance....



Chris flying the MiG....



Chris flying the Sabre....



More of Chris and his favorite past time...





I like this shot...





Steve Hinton, John Hinton, Chris Fahey, Stewart Dawson and Kevin Eldridge

[Mace2004]

You know, maybe we need a 1946 arena.  Think of the planes that almost made it into the fight; the F7F, F8F, AD, F4U-5, F-84, Spit Mk24, Meteor, Vampire, P-80, Fury, Sea Fury, etc., etc.

[GScholz]

Just make them really expensive perk rides.

[Guppy35]

No surviving Hornets.  Bits of them are around and there is a guy in England who is bit buy bit hoping to build one with as many of the surviving parts as he can get.  His cockpit section is a work of art.

http://www.dhhornet50.net/

[Grendel]

The German expression is how the P-38 received its nick name of "Fork Tailed Devil"!

Germans never called P-38 Der Gabelschwanz Teufel.

It was purely the invention of a single US journalist in African theather. Just colourful wartime writing that created yet another of the countless urban myths of WWII.

G

[earl1937]

Germans never called P-38 Der Gabelschwanz Teufel.

It was purely the invention of a single US journalist in African theather. Just colourful wartime writing that created yet another of the countless urban myths of WWII.

G

A direct quote from Lockheed-Martin web site on the history of the P-38 in North Africa: Within six months, as the P-38 showed its versatility in North Africa, a lone hysterical German pilot surrendered to soldiers at an Allied camp near Tunisia, pointing up to the sky and repeating one phrase—“der Gableschwanz Teufl”—over and over. I believe in German, that means "fork tailed devil"! I could be wrong as I do not speak German, but serveral sites on line which go into the history of the 38, all point to the Germans in North Africa as the ones who first coined the phase.

[Ack-Ack]

A direct quote from Lockheed-Martin web site on the history of the P-38 in North Africa: Within six months, as the P-38 showed its versatility in North Africa, a lone hysterical German pilot surrendered to soldiers at an Allied camp near Tunisia, pointing up to the sky and repeating one phrase—“der Gableschwanz Teufl”—over and over. I believe in German, that means "fork tailed devil"! I could be wrong as I do not speak German, but serveral sites on line which go into the history of the 38, all point to the Germans in North Africa as the ones who first coined the phase.

As noted before earlier in this thread, it was nothing more than a piece of creative writing by a wartime journalist and Lockheed seized upon it for publicity.  It's not the only case, the nicknames for other fighters that were attributed by the enemy were nothing more than creative writing by wartime journalists.  Another example was the Corsair, that was supposedly nicknamed "Whistling Death" by the Japanese, yet upon further investigation, there is not one single record of any Japanese referring to the Corsair as such.  It was later found out that a US wartime journalist is the one that penned it for some magazine article and it was only after that article was published that you can find any reference to the Corsair being nicknamed Whistling Death by the Japanese and only in Allied publications.  Call it Allied wartime propaganda, that's all it was.

ack-ack